August 19, 2009 at 8:16 am
When I was a teenager who had been working as a veterinary assistant and found myself out of work I drove over to the local pet emergency clinic and offered my services for free for the afternoon. They took me up on it, and though they were for the most part fully staffed they started using me for relief work -- and I continued to work there on my college vacations for the next four years.
I haven't done that since then mainly because I've not actually had breaks in employment but if I were to suddenly find myself out of work you can bet I'd be doing it again.
Logistically speaking it is tough to do this when you are currently employed and seeking new employment unless you have copious amounts of vacation time to use. That said, I have completed programming assignments from potential employers on my own time and I am sure this has helped get me hired on a couple of occasions.
--
Anye Mercy
"Service Unavailable is not an Error" -- John, ENOM support
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -- Inigo Montoya in "Princess Bride"
"Civilization exists by geologic consent, subject to change without notice." -- Will Durant
August 19, 2009 at 8:20 am
Interesting splits of opinion here.
I don't think there is a great benefit to an employee here for sure. I guess you can work with people for a couple days and see if you like them. Taking a couple days vacation to see if it's a good fit for your career doesn't seem like a lot, and I would have expected before you did this that you have been interviewed a few times and you were interested in the job. I wouldn't expect this for an initial interview.
However it can help the company make good hires. Will come people abuse it? I'm sure, but I wouldn't work 2 days for substandard wages. It would bet he normal rate I'd expect. If anyone asked differently, I'd suspect an issue here.
Why is this better? Setting up an FTE encompasses more than paperwork. There are benefits, enrollment in programs, it's a much bigger hassle than a contractor. It's one reason that companies are happy to pay contractors differently. You also pay taxes slightly differently on contractors, and so you save some hassles there. That's why a trial period works.
Sure a company could let you go at the end of a trial period. They could also let you go anytime. It's harder for them to let you go anytime (for some reason), but if you do a good job, and it's a good fit, why would they? Hiring people is hard, and it's expensive. You want to do a good job.
August 19, 2009 at 8:25 am
What I've seen in my last 2 job hunts (1 currently ongoing) is the use of tests like Brainbench. For a contract gig I got a year ago, I had to take the Brainbench "RDBMS Concepts" and Sybase tests. As much as I hate tests like that, at least they are practical and can show that you know (or are quick w/ teh google) your stuff. I have an interview on Friday where I'm going to have to take an SQL programming test. Woo. :ermm:
When I've hired someone, the type of tech interviews I've done have been more conceptual, where I ask them to describe things like a very difficult problem they had and how they solved it and aren't necessarily concerned that they have obscure options to some dbcc command or traceflag memorized. Indeed, these are *the* most useless 'tech' interview questions as anyone with half a brain would just look up a command on BOL or google.
Jason Miller (8/19/2009)
I always keep my eyes open. I also have a couple of friends that are headhunters, and principals in respectable consulting firms. I'm quite familiar with the "Candidate must have TSQL, SSAS, SSRS, Informatica, Oracle PL/SQL, UDB, C++ experience all at the senior level" and then have a salary range half of what it should be. :w00t:
The stupidest thing I've seen lately is the "Must have 8-10 years of MySQL experience" requirement. Um .... yeah ... OK. Whatever you say. :rolleyes:
August 19, 2009 at 8:26 am
A paid "trial" period, AKA probation, has been the one constant in my career. Every place I've worked as an employee has had a probationary period of at least 3 months and at most one year.
I never worked free for someone. I have been given a problem and asked how I would solve it. They expected a written report in three days but I turned in a working program with complete documentation. They hired me for my "out-of -the-box" thinking.
I offered to work for free once. It made me look desperate to them. They replied that they don't hire slaves or desperate people. They did not offer the job.
August 19, 2009 at 9:34 am
This is an interesting concept, but as many have stated, would be difficult for someone who has a job and is looking for a new job.
In the past I have worked for companies that require approval from their compliance department before an employee could pursue outside activities such as a second job or public office. I wonder if the trail period of even two days would be considered a second job. My guess is it would have been considered a second job by the compliance department if I was paid for the trial period.
August 19, 2009 at 10:13 am
Definitely. However, I don't know that a few days is enough time, except for a very few specific functional operations. Many times it takes a couple of weeks to learn how a company operates (who has the information you need, etc.).
August 19, 2009 at 10:14 am
majorbloodnock (8/19/2009)
The comments already made are indeed the logistical issues Steve mentioned in the article. However, in principle I think it's a great idea. How many times have we thought, "if only I can show them what I can do for their company...."? Well this is a means of doing just that, and I'd personally welcome the opportunity if I were looking for a new job.
Exactly. Sometimes in an interview I have found myself too nervous, and I know I am being judged on my personal presentation that day only, not what I can really do for the company.
August 19, 2009 at 10:30 am
I used to work at a small company where the CEO would place an ad in the paper advertising his job was open. He'd get lots of applicants and he'd take them through the company and ask them how they would improve things. In the end, he would hire no one, but would enjoy several days of free consulting work.
I would not say he got free consulting because most people leave out implementation details in such conversation, some of the reasons outsourcing in most cases fail because software is implementation. The replaced Americans leave with hard knock what part is not working knowledge that you only get by doing.
I think short term three months contracts is acceptable anything less in data puts the most valuable assets of a business at risk if the data is not encrypted.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
August 19, 2009 at 2:47 pm
- It's one thing to interview with a competitor's company. It's quite another to do paid work for a competitor's company. Most companies require permission for moonlighting in your career field. Even letting a competitor use your resume in a bid is disloyal and a firing offense. Imagine if the two-day tryout includes activities that give a competitor an edge.
- It's reminiscent of a Dilbert cartoon that shows bosses using interviewees as unpaid consultants by asking them for comprehensive answers to their real, live questions.
- A two-day paid tryout might (and possibly should) cost you your job. Don't give up your current job until you have been legally hired as a full-time employee for the new company. =Marty=
R Martin Ladner
futureec.com
August 19, 2009 at 4:53 pm
In Australia, probationary periods are the norm for non government employers and you are employed as a normal full time worker at the agreed salary. I have never had a job that didn't start with a 3 month probationary period. I have seen people asked to leave during that period but that is rare. Usually the manager and employee sit down and discuss where the employee may be having problems and what can be done to improve the situation. Sometimes the employee decides to leave. I know this is quite different to the US job market due to labour laws.
There is no contract-to-hire here, as has been described, as the probationary period performs this function. A company can advertise for a contract worker and then later employ the person full time. This is quite common but can get expensive for the company because here the contract rates can be more than the equivalent full time salary for the same time period. Having health insurance provided by your company isn't that common so the only thing the contract worker misses out on is paid leave and long service leave entitlements hence the contract rates.
I am quite happy with the way things are here, so I wouldn't like to go to a contract-to-hire system if that meant I was stuck with much less pay and then put up to the full time salary if I was employed at the end of the contract period. That feels like exploitation to me. As for trialling a job, well the probationary period covers that and it would be very awkward to organise if you already have full time employment. As others have mentioned, moonlighting needs to be okayed with your current employer or it can be a sackable offence. It would not be appropriate particularly if it was with a competitor. You would definitely get sacked and you'd better hope that the trial worked out or you are 2 companies down before you start your new job search!
Just my 2 cents worth.
Nicole Bowman
Nothing is forever.
August 19, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Interesting article. I used to wonder why companies dont do that. Few years ago I was trying to fill a position at the company I was working. I went through a dozen candidates conducting technical interviews and didnt find the right candidate. With all the frustration, I decided to the candidate search differently. I gave the candidates 2 hours to solve real world production issue. I was not looking for them to necessarily solve the problem, I wanted to see their approach to solving the issue. BINGO I got my guy, hired him, he is still employed and mgmt is satsified with his performance.
This approach may or may not work for all positions. But is worth a try.
Back to your question, would I be willing to try. Definitely yes. Flip side to the above is when being interviewed I have realized so many times the guy actually interviewing is not qualified technically but is still doing it. TEST DRIVE gives me an opppurtunity to showcase my skills.
Thanks for the article.
August 20, 2009 at 5:13 am
Nicole Bowman (8/19/2009)
As others have mentioned, moonlighting needs to be okayed with your current employer or it can be a sackable offence. It would not be appropriate particularly if it was with a competitor.
I have a hard time agreeing with this notion. It is one thing if I moonlight with a competitor. It is completely different if I go work somewhere else unrelated. What business is it of the employer what I do outside of work? I'm my own person, I devote a portion of my time to servicing the needs of my employer. Outside of that time, it is my time to spend as I see fit. If I want to get a side job digging ditches, handling the dba tasks for some charitable organization, or beating up dwarfs, who cares (except the dwarfs)?
I was previously employed by an "electronic marketing" company. I had a very reasonable, very good boss. Then for some reason, I was reassigned to a different manager. For the past twenty years I volunteer each Memorial Day and do odds jobs for a family camp in New Hampshire. This new manager told me that I couldn't do it, I told him he could kiss my hairy ***. Needless to say, I went up and volunteered. When I was finished, I was re-reassigned back to my original manager. (The second guy was quite the tool.)
I simply don't understand nor agree with this notion that your employer has such total control over your life. For the employers out there that think this way, get a life. For the employees that timidly accept this malarkey, grow a backbone.
Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, 'What should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen! -Samuel Adams
Honor Super Omnia-
Jason Miller
August 20, 2009 at 6:26 am
I tend to agree with Jason here. What you do on your time off, really isn't the business of your employer, provided you are not representing them. You shouldn't volunteer in a company shirt and bad mouth your company, but you ought to be able to explore other opportunities.
August 20, 2009 at 6:45 am
Steve Jones - Editor (8/20/2009)
I tend to agree with Jason here. What you do on your time off, really isn't the business of your employer, provided you are not representing them. You shouldn't volunteer in a company shirt and bad mouth your company, but you ought to be able to explore other opportunities.
I've worked for companies in the past that encouraged people to volunteer.
I volunteer to play music at retirement homes around the holidays, no conflict of interest there, and I think most companies would be hard pressed to give you a hard time over something like that.
If I went to work for a competitor in my free time, or was doing something illegal that could reflect poorly on them I could see them having an issue.
August 20, 2009 at 6:49 am
Jason Miller (8/20/2009)
Nicole Bowman (8/19/2009)
As others have mentioned, moonlighting needs to be okayed with your current employer or it can be a sackable offence. It would not be appropriate particularly if it was with a competitor.I have a hard time agreeing with this notion. It is one thing if I moonlight with a competitor. It is completely different if I go work somewhere else unrelated. What business is it of the employer what I do outside of work? I'm my own person, I devote a portion of my time to servicing the needs of my employer. Outside of that time, it is my time to spend as I see fit. If I want to get a side job digging ditches, handling the dba tasks for some charitable organization, or beating up dwarfs, who cares (except the dwarfs)?
.......
I simply don't understand nor agree with this notion that your employer has such total control over your life. For the employers out there that think this way, get a life. For the employees that timidly accept this malarkey, grow a backbone.
I think the watchword here is "reasonable".
A while ago, the company I work for published a set of standards to outline how they expected employees to conduct themselves, and some of those guidelines were ambiguous regarding one's personal life. I queried this, and an understanding was quickly reached that what the company could reasonably impose on someone's private life was limited to actions that might realistically reflect back on the company itself. For instance, if I decided to attend a neo-nazi rally and was photographed there, that would be my business, but if I chose to wear a t-shirt with my company's name and logo emblazoned all over it, that would then make it their business too.
Moonlighting is still doing more work over and above your day job. Aside from working for your competitors (where the company's vested interest should be tolerably obvious), any moonlighting will have you working during time that is theoretically "rest" time, and may have an effect on your performance over time. The odd day of charitable work is, as you say, neither here nor there, but a true second job can hardly be anything but exhausting. That's why most companies will include their view on moonlighting within their terms of employment, and you have the right to decline working under those terms. It's hardly reasonable to claim as unfair a clause within a contract you volunteered to enter into.
Relating this to your example, it's fairly clear your company saw your occasional charitable work didn't infringe the spirit of your contract, so rightly ignored your troublesome manager's officiousness; it was in neither their or your interests to do otherwise. However, if your charitable work became a nightly occurrence, I see nothing unreasonable in that company protecting its interests and asking you to curb your moonlighting.
All IMHO, of course.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
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