January 3, 2017 at 11:55 am
David.Poole (1/3/2017)
Craigmeister (1/3/2017)
It's a poor time to train for a new career, when you are nearing retirement.
Actually, retirement, itself, is a new career.
Very much so. For those no-where near retirement start financial planning for it as early as possible. Mind you people approaching the end of paid employment always say that having regretted not listening to the old farts who told them the same thing!
YES!
January 3, 2017 at 1:28 pm
Regardless of my role, I cannot work for an organization whose mission (true mission, not necessarily the official one) I don't agree with. And if I do agree with the mission, I'm willing to work in any role that makes good use of my strengths, as long as my contribution is respected and compensated fairly.
I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
January 3, 2017 at 1:34 pm
dietztm (1/3/2017)
...I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
The whole concept of a 'fulfilling job' is kind of a first world luxury. Throughout human history, people had to do whatever they had to do to survive. Very few had 'fulfilling' work.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
January 3, 2017 at 1:38 pm
Prof. R.H. Mabry of Clemson wrote a paper about this topic. The paper spends a little too much time dispelling the Phillips curve, but has some great quotes from Nathan Rosenberg. But no, Technology only shifts opportunities, and free markets are not a zero sum game. Buggy whip manufacturers found other skills, some learned to repair the horseless carriages that caused the end of their previous profession.
Thank you,
Yell McGuyer
DataYell.com
January 3, 2017 at 1:50 pm
Yell McGuyer (1/3/2017)
Prof. R.H. Mabry of Clemson wrote a paper about this topic. The paper spends a little too much time dispelling the Phillips curve, but has some great quotes from Nathan Rosenberg. But no, Technology only shifts opportunities, and free markets are not a zero sum game. Buggy whip manufacturers found other skills, some learned to repair the horseless carriages that caused the end of their previous profession.
There is some truth in this (though temporary and local disruptions can be very painful). In the US colonial period over 90% of the population was involved in food production... just keeping food on the table took up most of our labor. There was little left for other purposes. When farm mechanization reduced the number of farmers required, labor was freed up for many other products and luxuries.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
January 3, 2017 at 1:57 pm
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
...I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
The whole concept of a 'fulfilling job' is kind of a first world luxury. Throughout human history, people had to do whatever they had to do to survive. Very few had 'fulfilling' work.
Would you rather live in a first world country or a third world country?
January 3, 2017 at 2:14 pm
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
...I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
The whole concept of a 'fulfilling job' is kind of a first world luxury. Throughout human history, people had to do whatever they had to do to survive. Very few had 'fulfilling' work.
Would you rather live in a first world country or a third world country?
The point being, there aren't as many 'dream' jobs as their are people, and even here plenty people do jobs they don't like. If everyone did desirable jobs there's a HELL of a lot that wouldn't be done.
[I'm referring back to the statement, essentially a fairy tale, that "as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive."
Reality does not cooperate.]
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
January 3, 2017 at 2:25 pm
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
...I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
The whole concept of a 'fulfilling job' is kind of a first world luxury. Throughout human history, people had to do whatever they had to do to survive. Very few had 'fulfilling' work.
Would you rather live in a first world country or a third world country?
The point being, there aren't as many 'dream' jobs as their are people, and even here plenty people do jobs they don't like. If everyone did desirable jobs there's a HELL of a lot that wouldn't be done.
[I'm referring back to the statement, essentially a fairy tale, that "as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive."
Reality does not cooperate.]
What jobs are so undesireable, yet so essential that our society must force people into them?
January 3, 2017 at 4:21 pm
I've watched the carers of Alzheimer's patients. They work long hours on a pittance but from talking to them they find the work tremendously rewarding.
Think of all the rock stars and sports stars with insane wealth and glamorous lives wjo end up broken druggies or alcoholics. Sometimes the dream job is a nightmare and sometimes an unappealing job turns out to be unimaginably rewarding.
Things I love might drive someone else to suicide. The thought of having to watch or participate in a football match would make me resent every minute sacrificed to that pursuit.
If you can put square pegs in square holes there's no limit to what they can achieve.
January 4, 2017 at 4:01 am
I don't feel any technology guilt.
I believe that if we improve productivity then there is more wealth. My only reservation is that this generated wealth is not being taxed enough to cater for the small (tiny?) minority that are left without a means to provide for their needs. Also, if I provide value for shareholders then quite often what I am doing is improving pension funds' values which means ensuring that peoples' retirement plans are more likely to pan out.
As for wealth redistribution, I am not sure it works if it is shared to individuals as opposed to society.
These should be funded by society with everyone playing their part. That does mean that anyone with more than they need should be contributing. How much is tricky. And is usually "got wrong" in most peoples' minds.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
January 4, 2017 at 6:31 am
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
...I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
The whole concept of a 'fulfilling job' is kind of a first world luxury. Throughout human history, people had to do whatever they had to do to survive. Very few had 'fulfilling' work.
Would you rather live in a first world country or a third world country?
The point being, there aren't as many 'dream' jobs as their are people, and even here plenty people do jobs they don't like. If everyone did desirable jobs there's a HELL of a lot that wouldn't be done.
[I'm referring back to the statement, essentially a fairy tale, that "as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive."
Reality does not cooperate.]
What jobs are so undesireable, yet so essential that our society must force people into them?
I'm not sure, you were the one that suggested that it was wrong that people had to jobs they hate to survive. Perhaps you could identify them. My point is that there is no world where everyone gets to do a job they love (I'm sure that lots of people working in underground mines, garbage handling, cleaning sewer pipes, boring production line work, battlefields in far of nations, and plenty of other places would rather be lounging around their pool as movie stars, famous artists or tycoons.)
The proposition, however, of a "as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive." is just a fairy tale. 'Affodable education' does not eliminate the need for dirty undesirable jobs to get done. Giving everyone a college degree (alas, paid for apparently by taxing people who actually do earn their money) does not change that. There is nobility in work, and doing what needs to be done, this is the adult thing to do.
A 'safety net' is to keep you from starving, NOT to protect you from doing work you don't like.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
January 4, 2017 at 10:13 am
Well, just some food for thought in this thread:
Japanese white-collar workers are already being replaced by artificial intelligence
http://qz.com/875491/japanese-white-collar-workers-are-already-being-replaced-by-artificial-intelligence/[/url]
- webrunner
-------------------
A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html
January 4, 2017 at 12:15 pm
jay-h (1/4/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
...I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
The whole concept of a 'fulfilling job' is kind of a first world luxury. Throughout human history, people had to do whatever they had to do to survive. Very few had 'fulfilling' work.
Would you rather live in a first world country or a third world country?
The point being, there aren't as many 'dream' jobs as their are people, and even here plenty people do jobs they don't like. If everyone did desirable jobs there's a HELL of a lot that wouldn't be done.
[I'm referring back to the statement, essentially a fairy tale, that "as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive."
Reality does not cooperate.]
What jobs are so undesireable, yet so essential that our society must force people into them?
I'm not sure, you were the one that suggested that it was wrong that people had to jobs they hate to survive. Perhaps you could identify them. My point is that there is no world where everyone gets to do a job they love (I'm sure that lots of people working in underground mines, garbage handling, cleaning sewer pipes, boring production line work, battlefields in far of nations, and plenty of other places would rather be lounging around their pool as movie stars, famous artists or tycoons.)
The proposition, however, of a "as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive." is just a fairy tale. 'Affodable education' does not eliminate the need for dirty undesirable jobs to get done. Giving everyone a college degree (alas, paid for apparently by taxing people who actually do earn their money) does not change that. There is nobility in work, and doing what needs to be done, this is the adult thing to do.
A 'safety net' is to keep you from starving, NOT to protect you from doing work you don't like.
I agree a safety net is to keep you from starving - so you can get an education or look for work, if you are able to work, in a job that you can do well. If you hate your job, you won't do it well.
I can't tell you what jobs are hated by everyone, as this is a very individual thing. David Poole described this well, upthread. It may be that these jobs you describe are simply not a good match for your strengths, or it may be that these jobs that are typically under-compensated. Even you love the work, you may come to hate the job because you are under-paid or otherwise treated without respect by your employer. If you have to work too many hours to make a living wage, you may come to hate a job that otherwise you would enjoy.
January 4, 2017 at 12:21 pm
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
jay-h (1/3/2017)
dietztm (1/3/2017)
...I do believe that as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive.
The whole concept of a 'fulfilling job' is kind of a first world luxury. Throughout human history, people had to do whatever they had to do to survive. Very few had 'fulfilling' work.
Would you rather live in a first world country or a third world country?
The point being, there aren't as many 'dream' jobs as their are people, and even here plenty people do jobs they don't like. If everyone did desirable jobs there's a HELL of a lot that wouldn't be done.
[I'm referring back to the statement, essentially a fairy tale, that "as a nation we need a strong and secure safety net and affordable education, so people aren't forced into jobs they hate, just to survive."
Reality does not cooperate.]
What jobs are so undesireable, yet so essential that our society must force people into them?
The job of prison guard seems to be up there. Although so far there do seem to be many people who choose to go into that field.
- webrunner
-------------------
A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html
January 4, 2017 at 1:34 pm
The key to job security is insuring that you're never just a cog in a process. If you're just a cog in a specific process, then your career lifespan is only as long as the lifespan of that process. However, if you build, fix, optimize, or integrate processes, then you'll always have a job somewhere where there is a process, which is just about anywhere.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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