June 5, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Markus (6/5/2012)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/5/2012)
roryp 96873 (6/5/2012)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/5/2012)
Did you see the replay on the 6th inning foul ball? I didn't, but heard about it all over the radio Sat. Is it an asterisk if the umpire blew the call?If the ball hit the line, then Santana shouldn't consider this a no-hitter for himself. It goes as a win, it goes in the record books, it becomes a part of Met's history, but personally I wouldn't count it on an obvious bad call.
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=320601121&teams=st.-louis-cardinals-vs-new-york-mets
So where do you stand on Armando Galarraga's not-quite-perfect-game from two years ago?
I don't completely remember that. Wasn't that a bad call that made it not a perfect game? If so, that sucks, but without replay you can't fix it. Who knows if he continues to pitch a perfect game if that's an out.
First, I believe umpires make mistakes, and it's part of the game. I got a called third strike last week that I think was a bad call, but not egregious, and not worth arguing. It happens. I've had a few that I thought were horrible calls, but there's nothing to be done there, and I wouldn't want that in MLB.
Second, I don't want the same slowed down, but there's a lot of $$$ in MLB. Put a guy in the press box, give him monitors and a tech that explains how to rewind. Put cameras on the foul poles that track the ball with radar and zoom in for fair foul calls. Add a couple more looking the other way for HR calls. Take 36sec and make a decision. If it's wrong, I can live with the review, but some of the calls on fair/foul, or even tags at home, need review. They happen so fast, and the umpire isn't always in a good spot because of the way the ball comes in. Review a subset of important calls (not balls/strikes) and try to get better.
Not perfect. Better.
I agree completely. Put another Ump in the press box with more camera angles... If the call is questionable give him 30 secs to review. Not on everything but the is it fair or foul... thrown out at the plate or not.... not balls and strikes.
That Detroit/Cleveland game it WAS a perfect game. That blown call was the last out of the 9th inning which is that makes it so bad. The ump looked at the play after the game and admitted he blew the call. A 30 second review would have gotten it right. All he needed to see was that play at a diff angle and it was clearly an out.
The A's got lucky with a missed call at the plate the other day. I think it was Jeff Francouer of the Royals who made a brilliant hurdle over Suzuki's tag attempt. The mitt came within inches of touching him, but replays clearly showed him safe although the ump called him out. So, it's obvious that TV replay should be used for scoring attempts, right? Wrong. I say that the game is complex enough and that because the most subtle events can affect the final outcome, a tag play at second or third is no less important. Nor would be a bang-bang call at first on a speedy lead-off man in the first AB of the game. This is why the use of replay will be very, very, VERY gradually adopted. The nature of the game is such that the human element of officiating has to be accepted. This ain't tennis where the cyclops robot line judgement makes perfect sense for a major part of the game.
June 6, 2012 at 6:20 am
I had a roommate in college who was a big Mets fan (he was from Brooklyn) and went to games regularly.
He told me this story: contrary to popular belief, there was a no-hitter pitched by the Mets and Dwight Gooden (he was at this game).
I don't remember the specifics, but he told me that there was a play that should have been called an error, but was instead ruled a hit. Gooden finished with a 1-hitter.
My roommate told me it was the only game he'd ever attended where the fans were screaming, "kill the official scorer!"
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June 6, 2012 at 10:44 am
Ray K (6/6/2012)
I had a roommate in college who was a big Mets fan (he was from Brooklyn) and went to games regularly.He told me this story: contrary to popular belief, there was a no-hitter pitched by the Mets and Dwight Gooden (he was at this game).
I don't remember the specifics, but he told me that there was a play that should have been called an error, but was instead ruled a hit. Gooden finished with a 1-hitter.
My roommate told me it was the only game he'd ever attended where the fans were screaming, "kill the official scorer!"
Must be this game. Couldn't find much on it other than first-hand descriptions, but apparently the only hit was an infield single by the "fleet of foot" Keith Moreland. Apparently Ray Knight bobbled the ball before making the throw to first and they still called it a hit. They didn't start keeping infield hits as an official stat until 1988, but Moreland only had 28 stolen bases over his 12 year career.
June 6, 2012 at 10:51 am
john.arnott (6/5/2012)
Markus (6/5/2012)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/5/2012)
roryp 96873 (6/5/2012)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/5/2012)
Did you see the replay on the 6th inning foul ball? I didn't, but heard about it all over the radio Sat. Is it an asterisk if the umpire blew the call?If the ball hit the line, then Santana shouldn't consider this a no-hitter for himself. It goes as a win, it goes in the record books, it becomes a part of Met's history, but personally I wouldn't count it on an obvious bad call.
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=320601121&teams=st.-louis-cardinals-vs-new-york-mets
So where do you stand on Armando Galarraga's not-quite-perfect-game from two years ago?
I don't completely remember that. Wasn't that a bad call that made it not a perfect game? If so, that sucks, but without replay you can't fix it. Who knows if he continues to pitch a perfect game if that's an out.
First, I believe umpires make mistakes, and it's part of the game. I got a called third strike last week that I think was a bad call, but not egregious, and not worth arguing. It happens. I've had a few that I thought were horrible calls, but there's nothing to be done there, and I wouldn't want that in MLB.
Second, I don't want the same slowed down, but there's a lot of $$$ in MLB. Put a guy in the press box, give him monitors and a tech that explains how to rewind. Put cameras on the foul poles that track the ball with radar and zoom in for fair foul calls. Add a couple more looking the other way for HR calls. Take 36sec and make a decision. If it's wrong, I can live with the review, but some of the calls on fair/foul, or even tags at home, need review. They happen so fast, and the umpire isn't always in a good spot because of the way the ball comes in. Review a subset of important calls (not balls/strikes) and try to get better.
Not perfect. Better.
I agree completely. Put another Ump in the press box with more camera angles... If the call is questionable give him 30 secs to review. Not on everything but the is it fair or foul... thrown out at the plate or not.... not balls and strikes.
That Detroit/Cleveland game it WAS a perfect game. That blown call was the last out of the 9th inning which is that makes it so bad. The ump looked at the play after the game and admitted he blew the call. A 30 second review would have gotten it right. All he needed to see was that play at a diff angle and it was clearly an out.
The A's got lucky with a missed call at the plate the other day. I think it was Jeff Francouer of the Royals who made a brilliant hurdle over Suzuki's tag attempt. The mitt came within inches of touching him, but replays clearly showed him safe although the ump called him out. So, it's obvious that TV replay should be used for scoring attempts, right? Wrong. I say that the game is complex enough and that because the most subtle events can affect the final outcome, a tag play at second or third is no less important. Nor would be a bang-bang call at first on a speedy lead-off man in the first AB of the game. This is why the use of replay will be very, very, VERY gradually adopted. The nature of the game is such that the human element of officiating has to be accepted. This ain't tennis where the cyclops robot line judgement makes perfect sense for a major part of the game.
I guess I see it differently. I don't want 10 - 20 calls reviewed... however, there are certain times that it needs to be reviewed. Umps cannot be at the best angle to get the call right. My thought is that the UMPs are in the game to be an impartial judge on a play and the entire reason they are there is to get the call right. It drives me crazy that an ump makes a call, the manager sees it differently and unless the ump that makes the call wrong doesn't ask another ump for his opinion on the call it stands. To me this is partially not wanting to be wrong. Their entire purpose is to get the call right. The Tigers/Indians game of last year that had a blown Perfect game for the last out was just wrong.
June 6, 2012 at 11:10 am
I guess I see it differently. I don't want 10 - 20 calls reviewed... however, there are certain times that it needs to be reviewed. Umps cannot be at the best angle to get the call right. My thought is that the UMPs are in the game to be an impartial judge on a play and the entire reason they are there is to get the call right. It drives me crazy that an ump makes a call, the manager sees it differently and unless the ump that makes the call wrong doesn't ask another ump for his opinion on the call it stands. To me this is partially not wanting to be wrong. Their entire purpose is to get the call right. The Tigers/Indians game of last year that had a blown Perfect game for the last out was just wrong.
I think we may be agreeing on this. "Getting the call right" is a goal for sure, but the flow of the game is important too, both for the players and as an entertainment criterion, so instant replay on multiple plays is not desirable. Perhaps umpires need to be told that there's no shame in checking with their crew-mates. Maybe managers should learn to appeal to the umpire's pride in his work by saying "check with the other guys so you won't be embarrassed on Sport Center tonight". If you want to use TV, perhaps take a page from the NFL procedures and offer each manager a couple of chances to ask for it. If he's right and the call's reversed, then he keeps that chance.
June 6, 2012 at 11:18 am
I want a ton reviewed, I just don't want delays. Let the guy in the box review them all. If he has some doubt, or it's really close, call the ump on the field and ask for a 30 sec delay.
June 6, 2012 at 3:39 pm
Ray K (6/1/2012)
Is Jamie Moyer done?
June 7, 2012 at 5:27 am
Orioles To Sign Jamie Moyer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 6 at 4:13pm CST]
The Orioles have agreed to sign Jamie Moyer, who pitched for the Orioles from 1993-95, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com reports (on Twitter). The 49-year-old left-hander will start for Baltimore's Triple-A affiliate on Saturday.
The Rockies released Moyer two days ago after designating him for assignment last week. Moyer, who turns 50 this fall, started ten games for the Rockies after signing a minor league deal with the team in January. He posted a 5.70 ERA with 6.0 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 in 53 2/3 innings in his return from Tommy John surgery.
June 7, 2012 at 6:19 am
Markus (6/7/2012)
. . . Moyer, who turns 50 this fall . . .
He has quite a way to go before he catches Satchel Paige (whom, I believe, pitched in the majors at 59).
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June 7, 2012 at 6:23 am
john.arnott (6/6/2012)
I guess I see it differently. I don't want 10 - 20 calls reviewed... however, there are certain times that it needs to be reviewed. Umps cannot be at the best angle to get the call right. My thought is that the UMPs are in the game to be an impartial judge on a play and the entire reason they are there is to get the call right. It drives me crazy that an ump makes a call, the manager sees it differently and unless the ump that makes the call wrong doesn't ask another ump for his opinion on the call it stands. To me this is partially not wanting to be wrong. Their entire purpose is to get the call right. The Tigers/Indians game of last year that had a blown Perfect game for the last out was just wrong.
I think we may be agreeing on this. "Getting the call right" is a goal for sure, but the flow of the game is important too, both for the players and as an entertainment criterion, so instant replay on multiple plays is not desirable. Perhaps umpires need to be told that there's no shame in checking with their crew-mates. Maybe managers should learn to appeal to the umpire's pride in his work by saying "check with the other guys so you won't be embarrassed on Sport Center tonight". If you want to use TV, perhaps take a page from the NFL procedures and offer each manager a couple of chances to ask for it. If he's right and the call's reversed, then he keeps that chance.
I like this idea, and I'd even take it a step further: maybe penalize the side that requested the replay if the call is correct. If the offense requests it and the call is confirmed, they are penalized an out -- the batter who would have been up goes back to the bench -- and the next batter comes to bat (or the inning ends, if there are two outs). If the defense request it and it's confirmed, the man at-bat is awarded first base.
(Edit: spelling)
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June 7, 2012 at 6:27 am
Ray K (6/7/2012)
john.arnott (6/6/2012)
I guess I see it differently. I don't want 10 - 20 calls reviewed... however, there are certain times that it needs to be reviewed. Umps cannot be at the best angle to get the call right. My thought is that the UMPs are in the game to be an impartial judge on a play and the entire reason they are there is to get the call right. It drives me crazy that an ump makes a call, the manager sees it differently and unless the ump that makes the call wrong doesn't ask another ump for his opinion on the call it stands. To me this is partially not wanting to be wrong. Their entire purpose is to get the call right. The Tigers/Indians game of last year that had a blown Perfect game for the last out was just wrong.
I think we may be agreeing on this. "Getting the call right" is a goal for sure, but the flow of the game is important too, both for the players and as an entertainment criterion, so instant replay on multiple plays is not desirable. Perhaps umpires need to be told that there's no shame in checking with their crew-mates. Maybe managers should learn to appeal to the umpire's pride in his work by saying "check with the other guys so you won't be embarrassed on Sport Center tonight". If you want to use TV, perhaps take a page from the NFL procedures and offer each manager a couple of chances to ask for it. If he's right and the call's reversed, then he keeps that chance.
I like this idea, and I'd even take it a step further: maybe penalize the side that requested the replay if the call is correct. If the offense requests it and the call is confirmed, they are penalized an out -- the batter who would have been up goes back to the bench -- and the next batter comes to bat (or the inning ends, if there are two outs). If the defense request it and it's confirmed, the man at-bat is awarded first base.
(Edit: spelling)
Then again, in hindsight, isn't that what would happen anyway? Didn't think -- I haven't had my coffee yet!
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June 7, 2012 at 8:07 am
Ray K (6/7/2012)
Markus (6/7/2012)
. . . Moyer, who turns 50 this fall . . .He has quite a way to go before he catches Satchel Paige (whom, I believe, pitched in the majors at 59).
He pitched on his 59th birthday, but that was more a publicity stunt than an actual stint in the majors. He pitched 3 innings of scoreless ball in one game that year, and the last time he pitched in the majors before that was 12 years prior at the young age of 46.
June 7, 2012 at 10:38 am
john.arnott (6/6/2012)
I guess I see it differently. I don't want 10 - 20 calls reviewed... however, there are certain times that it needs to be reviewed. Umps cannot be at the best angle to get the call right. My thought is that the UMPs are in the game to be an impartial judge on a play and the entire reason they are there is to get the call right. It drives me crazy that an ump makes a call, the manager sees it differently and unless the ump that makes the call wrong doesn't ask another ump for his opinion on the call it stands. To me this is partially not wanting to be wrong. Their entire purpose is to get the call right. The Tigers/Indians game of last year that had a blown Perfect game for the last out was just wrong.
I think we may be agreeing on this. "Getting the call right" is a goal for sure, but the flow of the game is important too, both for the players and as an entertainment criterion, so instant replay on multiple plays is not desirable. Perhaps umpires need to be told that there's no shame in checking with their crew-mates. Maybe managers should learn to appeal to the umpire's pride in his work by saying "check with the other guys so you won't be embarrassed on Sport Center tonight". If you want to use TV, perhaps take a page from the NFL procedures and offer each manager a couple of chances to ask for it. If he's right and the call's reversed, then he keeps that chance.
Interesting . . . I came across this article during my lunch break.
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June 7, 2012 at 11:06 am
Ray K (6/7/2012)
john.arnott (6/6/2012)
I guess I see it differently. I don't want 10 - 20 calls reviewed... however, there are certain times that it needs to be reviewed. Umps cannot be at the best angle to get the call right. My thought is that the UMPs are in the game to be an impartial judge on a play and the entire reason they are there is to get the call right. It drives me crazy that an ump makes a call, the manager sees it differently and unless the ump that makes the call wrong doesn't ask another ump for his opinion on the call it stands. To me this is partially not wanting to be wrong. Their entire purpose is to get the call right. The Tigers/Indians game of last year that had a blown Perfect game for the last out was just wrong.
I think we may be agreeing on this. "Getting the call right" is a goal for sure, but the flow of the game is important too, both for the players and as an entertainment criterion, so instant replay on multiple plays is not desirable. Perhaps umpires need to be told that there's no shame in checking with their crew-mates. Maybe managers should learn to appeal to the umpire's pride in his work by saying "check with the other guys so you won't be embarrassed on Sport Center tonight". If you want to use TV, perhaps take a page from the NFL procedures and offer each manager a couple of chances to ask for it. If he's right and the call's reversed, then he keeps that chance.
I like this idea, and I'd even take it a step further: maybe penalize the side that requested the replay if the call is correct. If the offense requests it and the call is confirmed, they are penalized an out -- the batter who would have been up goes back to the bench -- and the next batter comes to bat (or the inning ends, if there are two outs). If the defense request it and it's confirmed, the man at-bat is awarded first base.
(Edit: spelling)
woo! you're all still alive!
It's been a while since I've visited but I'm glad you guys are still here.
This is pretty drastic, no? Even in the NFL the penalty for being wrong on a replay is the loss of a timeout. This doesn't impact the result of the game as would a free base or loss of an out. Replay is not necessary in order to make the right call (so long as it's the right call for my team).
Get the umpires to ask for an appeal more often and overturn calls when they are clearly blown, this is the better solution AND they don't have to add/change the rule book.
June 8, 2012 at 6:24 am
calvo (6/7/2012)
Ray K (6/7/2012)
john.arnott (6/6/2012)
I guess I see it differently. I don't want 10 - 20 calls reviewed... however, there are certain times that it needs to be reviewed. Umps cannot be at the best angle to get the call right. My thought is that the UMPs are in the game to be an impartial judge on a play and the entire reason they are there is to get the call right. It drives me crazy that an ump makes a call, the manager sees it differently and unless the ump that makes the call wrong doesn't ask another ump for his opinion on the call it stands. To me this is partially not wanting to be wrong. Their entire purpose is to get the call right. The Tigers/Indians game of last year that had a blown Perfect game for the last out was just wrong.
I think we may be agreeing on this. "Getting the call right" is a goal for sure, but the flow of the game is important too, both for the players and as an entertainment criterion, so instant replay on multiple plays is not desirable. Perhaps umpires need to be told that there's no shame in checking with their crew-mates. Maybe managers should learn to appeal to the umpire's pride in his work by saying "check with the other guys so you won't be embarrassed on Sport Center tonight". If you want to use TV, perhaps take a page from the NFL procedures and offer each manager a couple of chances to ask for it. If he's right and the call's reversed, then he keeps that chance.
I like this idea, and I'd even take it a step further: maybe penalize the side that requested the replay if the call is correct. If the offense requests it and the call is confirmed, they are penalized an out -- the batter who would have been up goes back to the bench -- and the next batter comes to bat (or the inning ends, if there are two outs). If the defense request it and it's confirmed, the man at-bat is awarded first base.
(Edit: spelling)
woo! you're all still alive!
It's been a while since I've visited but I'm glad you guys are still here.
This is pretty drastic, no? Even in the NFL the penalty for being wrong on a replay is the loss of a timeout. This doesn't impact the result of the game as would a free base or loss of an out. Replay is not necessary in order to make the right call (so long as it's the right call for my team).
Get the umpires to ask for an appeal more often and overturn calls when they are clearly blown, this is the better solution AND they don't have to add/change the rule book.
Yeah, my original line of thinking was to somehow penalize whomever requests the replay (after all, replays shouldn't be "free," nor should they be abused). Yes, in the NFL, you'd lose a timeout, but nevertheless, it's still one fewer timeout, which could be a factor after the two minute warning and you're driving with a seven point deficit.
How about this idea: limit each side to one -- and ONLY one -- replay request per game? Limiting it to one keeps game flow from getting out of hand. Besides, how often do we see bad calls that affect game outcomes? Okay, maybe there might be more than one in a game; that just means you have to be judicious about when you use your replay timeout.
Or another idea: a defensive team that's wrong on a replay request is charged a trip to the mound? And an offensive team that's wrong is charged a strike?
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