October 3, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Support The Boss
October 3, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Wow. The article and the editorial are great but sure could open up pandora's box discussion wise. Without always saying "YES" or getting my nose stuck in a most undignified manner, I believe that every employee has only one job... make the boss look good (sometimes requires saying "No... here's what happens if we do that").
Just like it's no pleasure to work for an ungrateful overpowering boss, it's no fun having ungrateful noncompliant subordinates. A fair bit of mutual respect and trust achieved by adequate and proper dialog is a must. There's a lot of ways to achieve both and a whole lot more ways to destroy both.
The bottom line is, if you can't or won't make your boss look good, it's time to find a new job.
Guess I'll leave it at that.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 5, 2009 at 1:56 am
a select group of us employees were given series of MBA courses but just an overview. it was not even a mini-MBA course which is one year. we were not graded thus we did not have to be interactive, but we did ask a lot of questions.
for that brief moment of time when we were on the view of top (supposed to be), i understood why it is difficult to be a real, C-employee. aside from leadership, there is strategic thinking, organizational maps, executive finance (now i understand those annual reports), marketing, etc.
i have reached the M-level, due to this and that, but i feel it is not enough. i think there are some courses i need to take and some more books to read. so CIO? i think that is only with big companies and that is really tough.
October 5, 2009 at 2:34 am
One more jewel to the editorial list...
Thinking like a CIO/CEO itself changes our attitude toward the daily work we do.
October 5, 2009 at 7:38 am
I've had bosses I would back up completely and support enthusiastically, and bosses I'd abandon at the slightest opportunity. Fortunately, more of the first than the second.
I always think business first, code second. But business is what I'm educated in, so that's probably expected.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
October 5, 2009 at 7:46 am
Great editorial and practical wisdom. Getting a good boss and a good team is a huge blessing, sometimes even more than getting more money. I think there is a hugely important third perspective - getting along with peers or other team members. A team where members constantly squabble and have ego struggles/one upmanship is very difficult for a manager to control/manage - team chemistry where members understand one another and get along makes life easy for both manager and individuals. If I were to ask for a one line definition of anyone - a boss, a subordinate, a peer it would be - someone who is interested in being a better person. As long as we have such individuals and the company has a purpose that is over and above individual advancement then teams stick together and are worth being part of.
October 5, 2009 at 7:49 am
I agree on some level with the article; however, there are always situations where things get complicated. One time, I was working and I made my boss aware of an issue with one of the systems. At the time there was an audit going through and this would have delayed the results for quite a while. After making him aware of the issue I was let go 2 days later. I feel like it's very important to be loyal to the boss; however, I also think there is a line that should be drawn in the sand in regards to self preservation. The best places I've worked have been the places where my manager has an open door policy, and where my manager is very good about communicating what he/ she thinks without letting things build up into resentment.
October 5, 2009 at 8:18 am
Thinking like a CIO/CEO/or manager should change your job. Think about their point of view, their needs, etc. and it will help you. You don't have to agree with them, but understand them.
I think you ought to support your boss, while politely disagreeing, or being able to argue with them. But when the decision is made, support them. I think it's the same with government. You can disagree, you can protest, but you have to support them as our leaders.
October 6, 2009 at 9:12 am
Steve Jones - Editor (10/5/2009)
Thinking like a CIO/CEO/or manager should change your job. Think about their point of view, their needs, etc. and it will help you. You don't have to agree with them, but understand them.I think you ought to support your boss, while politely disagreeing, or being able to argue with them. But when the decision is made, support them. I think it's the same with government. You can disagree, you can protest, but you have to support them as our leaders.
And there I disagree with you. There comes a point where polite disagreement is no longer adequate to the need.
The American Revolution is a good example.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
October 6, 2009 at 9:30 am
GSquared, i was of the same opinion as you are. I have learn the hard way - unless it is a strong issue of ethics and black and white right and wrong with upper management on the right side - an office environment is not a place to start a revolution. A good environment allows for agreeing to disagree. If the matter bothers one so much and there is no room for that it is better to move on.
October 6, 2009 at 9:30 am
GSquared (10/6/2009)
Steve Jones - Editor (10/5/2009)
Thinking like a CIO/CEO/or manager should change your job. Think about their point of view, their needs, etc. and it will help you. You don't have to agree with them, but understand them.I think you ought to support your boss, while politely disagreeing, or being able to argue with them. But when the decision is made, support them. I think it's the same with government. You can disagree, you can protest, but you have to support them as our leaders.
And there I disagree with you. There comes a point where polite disagreement is no longer adequate to the need.
The American Revolution is a good example.
got to agree with that, there is so much to be gained from toeing the company line regarding decisions made by management and being a 'team member', but lets not forget disagreeing with the boss's decision is enough to get tagged as not a team player and that can have serious implications on your career. The only real advantage to walking in the shoes of a CEO for a day, is gaining a greater understanding of how they view all the technology/employees below them in the corporate structure and you can try and use that understanding to protect your job security.
Never be naive enough to think that they care about your wellbeing, they are so high in the company infrastructure, they wouldnt even know your name, probably not even your managers name. As for supporting people regardless of what you feel about their decision, well if that is the case, there is no need for free speech and democracy goes straight out of the window.
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October 6, 2009 at 9:39 am
dma-669038 (10/6/2009)
GSquared, i was of the same opinion as you are. I have learn the hard way - unless it is a strong issue of ethics and black and white right and wrong with upper management on the right side - an office environment is not a place to start a revolution. A good environment allows for agreeing to disagree. If the matter bothers one so much and there is no room for that it is better to move on.
So, if you'd been an Enron employee, and had known about the illegal goings-on, you would have communicated about it on the company's standard communication channels, realized you couldn't change the company, and left?
I would have gone to law enforcement. Are you saying you wouldn't have?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
October 6, 2009 at 9:47 am
I would have learnt what I can about upper management and how deep the issue really is, if an escalation is going to be perceived in good spirit by someone up there. More often than not the sad answer in such situations is no the issue is deep and goes all the way up. I would leave, without a second thought, quietly and yes complain to law enforcement anonymously if I could. There are two books that helped me - and let me clarify upfront i am not a fan of both authors just somethign they wrote helped me understand. One is Stephen Covey and second is John Gray. Covey talks of principle centered leadership and having realistic organisation goals that everyone believes in. It is one thing to have that in writing but another in practice but even if there are few things that everyone believes in practice that environment is usually worthy of disagreement on specific issues. John Gray talks of carrying emotions and righteousness into the workplace - people want to be right many times at cost of others they do not like and that can cost them dearly in terms of career. Just some things to think about.
October 6, 2009 at 9:55 am
Then you agree that there's a point beyond which you need to "declare independence", and, if necessary, have those who specialize in the application of force and violence take on the cause of eliminating a boss who has crossed a line. (Police and armies are both the application/threat of force and violence.)
That's the point I'm making. Some bosses are worth backing up. You may disagree with them on minor or even major points, but there's a commonality of purpose and intent, there's an agreement on standards of acceptable behavior, and there's an ability to raise disagreements and resolve them. And there are bosses that aren't worth backing up. And there are bosses that need to be removed from authority involuntarily. It's a gradient scale.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
October 6, 2009 at 10:37 am
I'd rather say simply and plainly we are better off moving on if we have made a fair attempt to get along and it is not working out. Really dont know how much 'independance' goes for an employed person - perhaps freedom from one situation but rarely a lasting one:)) The Enron type of situations happen but far less compared to gray areas and various levels of understanding. Yes undoubtedly lot of people dont deserve to be bosses...but usually that call is made by their bosses and less by their team members unless they are repeat offenders of same problems.
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