August 29, 2013 at 9:22 am
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.
...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 29, 2013 at 9:38 am
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.
...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.:-D
Travis - Yes, we do not have all the facts, and we do not have the context. But we have one persons honest reaction. I trust Steve would not have twisted nor distorted this to make a point out of thin air. What we have in both Steve's interpretation and reaction to some comments that appeared to be way off. And in reality I believe that what Steve heard was a sexist remark. And that he was accurate in his recollection.
That said, a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
August 29, 2013 at 9:42 am
Dalkeith (8/29/2013)
Oh boy - flat earthers still exist.
Just like there are still folks who can't get around anything but a flat data model.
ATBCharles Kincaid
August 29, 2013 at 9:52 am
Miles Neale (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.
...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.:-D
...a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.
Miles,
and it might not be an eye-opener at all. We just can't asume that it will be without all the facts first. Right now it is just hearsay, even though I too trust that Steve would not distort what he heard either, but nonetheless, it is still hearsay at this point. Anyway , I'm not sure it is our place to do that anyway, even if it was true. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 29, 2013 at 9:55 am
Charles Kincaid (8/29/2013)
Dalkeith (8/29/2013)
Oh boy - flat earthers still exist.Just like there are still folks who can't get around anything but a flat data model.
Yes and I keep reading articles saying that the flat data model is making a come back.
Remain vigilant everyone
cloudydatablog.net
August 29, 2013 at 10:00 am
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
Miles Neale (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.
...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.:-D
...a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.
Miles,
and it might not be an eye-opener at all. We just can't assume that it will be without all the facts first. Right now it is just hearsay, even though I too trust that Steve would not distort what he heard either, but nonetheless, it is still hearsay at this point. Anyway , I'm not sure it is our place to do that anyway, even if it was true. 😀
I agree that is probably not my place nor yours. But if Steve did hear it and this is in fact what he heard, he does have the opportunity to say something, and probably should. After reading the comments on this board, I hope he does.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
August 29, 2013 at 10:02 am
I highly doubt he does, he has pretty much said he wouldn't in this thread already.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
Miles Neale (8/29/2013)
TravisDBA (8/29/2013)
chappellc (8/28/2013)
Steve,I would hope that you would at the very least forward this forum link to the person in question. Perhaps a solid verbal bashing by a growing group of peers would do more to enlighten him than anything else.
...and maybe it won't. Anyway, that is not anyone's (including Steve's) place here to do that IMHO. We don't have all the facts, and even if we did I'm still not sure it is anyway, because this is just something Steve heard according to him.:-D
...a person might not need to read this board as a means of correction, but it might be an eye-opener to them to see the reaction to what they actually said or inferred in their words. Often we do not know what others hear when we think we speak correctly and honestly. But in all honesty we need to have clear feedback on what we say and do to insure we do not continue to offend, belittle, or disgrace people. A person can make an honest mistake and speak without their brain engaged, but if they had the brain engaged and said this knowingly, they have a serious problem.
Miles,
and it might not be an eye-opener at all. We just can't asume that it will be without all the facts first. Right now it is just hearsay, even though I too trust that Steve would not distort what he heard either, but nonetheless, it is still hearsay at this point. Anyway , I'm not sure it is our place to do that anyway, even if it was true. 😀
It was hearsay for me, too. That's why I haven't pursued things further.
August 30, 2013 at 10:44 am
Vera-428803 (8/28/2013)
I sometimes speak at schools ...
Most girls are scared because of the technical aspect of the job
Read that again and tell me that it doesn't sound sexist.
August 30, 2013 at 11:08 am
mike brockington (8/30/2013)
Vera-428803 (8/28/2013)
I sometimes speak at schools ...
Most girls are scared because of the technical aspect of the job
Read that again and tell me that it doesn't sound sexist.
Mike,
I use to speak in colleges as well and I have to say in that day and age everyone was scared. The women were more expressive and you could read some of the fear on the faces. But the men were just as afraid, however they tried to hide it with their bravado. I have heard from both male and female that there was no interest in doing IT work as a career because it just looked like too much hard work and there had to be an easier way.
Funny story about one guys first day on the job doing IT and other work at a large library. Start of day he was told what he was to do and what the hours were plus expectations etc. He asked if there was a lunch and breaks and was told yes, and that the lunch hour was his to do with as he pleased. That day for his first lunch he left to eat and never came back. The expectations must have scared the daylights out of him. It is my belief that this type of thing happens to people of all genders, races, and religions.
🙂
Have a good one!
M.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
August 30, 2013 at 11:18 am
The pre-job jitters can happen to anyone, regardless of gender. Particularly, if you think you are walking into a firestorm and being left on your own right away. This has got nothing to do with sexism. I have seen a bunch of people (male and female) over the years walk right out of DBA interviews because they decided the nature of the job, or the after hours/on-call hours requirement was just not for them, or not conducive to raising a family. Sexism had nothing to do with it. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 30, 2013 at 11:55 am
Travis, well said! I guess I was a little too abstract.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
August 30, 2013 at 2:19 pm
A user group leader responded to an inquiry with: "We don't want female speakers. Our users only want to hear technical content."
I didn't press for more details when I heard about it and I'm not interested in learning specifics.
Personally, I think that learning the details is important. How could a problem like this be corrected, unless we call attention to it, ask the speaker to explain himself, try to understand the thinking behind it?
However, this asserted bias against women in technology, if anything, appears to be specific individuals who are the culprits. It's not the same thing as, for example, bias against blacks during the 1960s. I simply don't see any broad institutional bias. If I'm wrong about this, then open my eyes by providing more specific examples.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
August 30, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Eric M Russell (8/30/2013)
If I'm wrong about this, then open my eyes by providing more specific examples.
...broad institutional bias
'Nuff said.
EDITED TO ADD: Grease paint.
August 30, 2013 at 7:06 pm
mike brockington (8/30/2013)
Vera-428803 (8/28/2013)
I sometimes speak at schools ...
Most girls are scared because of the technical aspect of the job
Read that again and tell me that it doesn't sound sexist.
The problem is that girls are just as susceptible to peer pressure to not appear to be a geek or a nerd, if not more so than a guy.
----------------
Jim P.
A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.
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