June 3, 2009 at 6:01 am
The organization I work for tells me that I am the Senior Production SS DBA. I fell like a junior one though.
Sys Admins, with management approval, decide hardware architecture/topology. They come to me and say we built a new DB server now go put SQL Server on it, maintain it, and if the performance sucks because of poor architecture too bad, try to do something logically to fix it but the hardware is the hardware.
Sys Admins also want to handle DB backup and recovery. They are implementing MS DPM and I was told that DPM will be used to backup and recover all DBs. Also, I will not have access to the product, the SAs will manage the backups.
How many production DBAs would just grin and bear it, or maybe start looking somewhere else?
June 3, 2009 at 7:52 am
Well you can take this in 2 ways, one way is that you can mail your reporting authority briefing about the risks that the company will be facing by tasks that were done by system administrator.
And the other way of looking at it is, you got revealed from one major work, you can utilize your time learning new things, if you are not responsible for some task then you dont have to worry about it
I agree it get on your nerves when you cant do certain things, faced the same situation once.
I went into this company where i was new as a DBA, and all the machines were mess,when i went into the company i was told to stick up with the routines, i verified and mailed to my manager that these tasks need changing, if not we will be in trouble, as you expect my mail was ignored, then in few months down the line, we got the inveterate, my manager came down to me asking whats the problem, i explained it to him this is the one i was crying out loud to you , finally it happened. then he agreed to implement my changes.
This seems to be a bit odd and gives you an impression that i don't want to do any thing and let the system fail, Trust me they pushed me to that point where i have to do it 😉
June 3, 2009 at 9:15 am
You definitely should communicate your concerns with your manager and get it in writing at least in an email, so when something you are concerned about happens, you can point to the concerns you raised and the response to those concerns.
When communicating your concerns be sure to share exactly why you have those concerns and point to documentation that verify that the concerns are legitimate. MS documentation will be the best resource followed by whitepapers, and then blog posts by acknowledged experts like Kalen Delaney, Paul Randal, Kimberly Tripp.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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July 2, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Get an exact list of your expected duties. Then do yourself a favor and do a little extra.
It wouldn't hurt to create database backups and transaction log backups through the native SQL client if you've got the space. This way, if their backup software is only backing up the data files (because the foolish server admin don't understand the difference between file share backups and database backups), you've done enough CYA to make yourself a star when something goes down.
And as Jack said, make sure your manager is aware of your concerns.
July 3, 2009 at 1:02 am
Brandie Tarvin (7/2/2009)
It wouldn't hurt to create database backups and transaction log backups through the native SQL client if you've got the space.
I appreciate the difficulty here, but I wouldn't do that... especially if the SA's are doing transaction log backups anyway.
All you're going to do is find you can't restore from your backups, because some of the log backups are accessible only by the SA's. The SA's can't restore from their backups because you have some of the log backups stored elsewhere... and guess who'll get the blame.:w00t:
July 6, 2009 at 5:05 am
I doubt that will happen. Remember that SA in this case means server admin, not SysAdmin (SQL Server speak) and that they are using a third party tool. That third party tool will not interfere with the SQL Server native backup chain. And the backup chain will not interfere with the third party tool's chain.
So I don't see any problems with people not being able to restore their backups because someone else is doing them.
July 6, 2009 at 5:55 am
That third party tool will not interfere with the SQL Server native backup chain. And the backup chain will not interfere with the third party tool's chain.
I beg to differ. Have a look at this post
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic720903-357-1.aspx
and this one
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic551769-357-1.aspx
July 6, 2009 at 6:04 am
Brandie Tarvin (7/6/2009)
That third party tool will not interfere with the SQL Server native backup chain. And the backup chain will not interfere with the third party tool's chain.
If the third party tool uses the VDI interface to do the backups and does log backups itself, adding native log backups most certainly will interfere with the log chain unless they are all taken 'copy only'. And if the native backups are all taken 'copy only' it won't be possible to restore them without the 3rd party tool's backups.
Taking a second set of full backups is OK, providing the 3rd party tool isn't doing diffs, but if there are two sets of log backups taken, it'll be a restore nightmare as both sets, in chronological order, will be needed to restore.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 7, 2009 at 12:15 pm
I would say Sr. DBA is the correct title for this position, not Jr. DBA. I don't think a Jr. DBA would concern themselves as much as you with the lack of control to the sys admins. It's the Sr. DBA's job to know how best to manage the SQL Server, not the Sys Admins or Jr. DBA's. Voice your opinions and concerns as a Sr. DBA to management and hopefully you can get things changed in the future.
July 7, 2009 at 1:48 pm
You might also want to have someone confirm (in writing) that restores are also the responsibilty of the sysadmins, and that they have someone competent to recover the database(s) accurately at whatever time needed, including system databases. If nothing else it might trigger someone to confirm that the sysadmins can indeed handle that and give you some peace of mind.
August 18, 2009 at 6:04 am
stephen.lappe (6/3/2009)
The organization I work for tells me that I am the Senior Production SS DBA. I fell like a junior one though.Sys Admins, with management approval, decide hardware architecture/topology. They come to me and say we built a new DB server now go put SQL Server on it, maintain it, and if the performance sucks because of poor architecture too bad, try to do something logically to fix it but the hardware is the hardware.
Sys Admins also want to handle DB backup and recovery. They are implementing MS DPM and I was told that DPM will be used to backup and recover all DBs. Also, I will not have access to the product, the SAs will manage the backups.
How many production DBAs would just grin and bear it, or maybe start looking somewhere else?
Just out of curiosity, You dont mention how many SQL DBA's are in your organisation , how do they feel about the situation and if you are the only one, how can you be the senior DBA 😛
lets have a go at answering your questions, using my last role as a guide 😀
I worked as a projects dba for a very big investment bank. some of the things that you cannot do if you are Production DBA doing BAU.
not allowed to do login management (due to what they call separation of duties)
not allowed to build or install SQL Server (Wintel SA's do all that)
not allowed to do anything with integration services
not allowed to do anything with reporting services
not allowed to do development
not allowed to do analysis services
How anyone wants to be production dba doing BAU in a bank I have no idea.
I would question if the sa's are going to do the restores as well, when they need to, if they are going to do the backups.
and basically when the system goes completely pearshaped, and the business needs databases restored within minutes, how quickly can the SA's get called out in the middle of the night.
and to answer your last question, luckily enough I was on project based work and we were allowed to do things, unlike the poor BAU Team. and to be totally honest, some DBA's take the easy way out and look at it purely as work and money coming in.
~Silverfox~
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August 18, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Silverfox (8/18/2009)
stephen.lappe (6/3/2009)
The organization I work for tells me that I am the Senior Production SS DBA. I fell like a junior one though.Sys Admins, with management approval, decide hardware architecture/topology. They come to me and say we built a new DB server now go put SQL Server on it, maintain it, and if the performance sucks because of poor architecture too bad, try to do something logically to fix it but the hardware is the hardware.
Sys Admins also want to handle DB backup and recovery. They are implementing MS DPM and I was told that DPM will be used to backup and recover all DBs. Also, I will not have access to the product, the SAs will manage the backups.
How many production DBAs would just grin and bear it, or maybe start looking somewhere else?
Just out of curiosity, You dont mention how many SQL DBA's are in your organisation , how do they feel about the situation and if you are the only one, how can you be the senior DBA 😛
lets have a go at answering your questions, using my last role as a guide 😀
I worked as a projects dba for a very big investment bank. some of the things that you cannot do if you are Production DBA doing BAU.
not allowed to do login management (due to what they call separation of duties)
not allowed to build or install SQL Server (Wintel SA's do all that)
not allowed to do anything with integration services
not allowed to do anything with reporting services
not allowed to do development
not allowed to do analysis services
How anyone wants to be production dba doing BAU in a bank I have no idea.
I would question if the sa's are going to do the restores as well, when they need to, if they are going to do the backups.
and basically when the system goes completely pearshaped, and the business needs databases restored within minutes, how quickly can the SA's get called out in the middle of the night.
and to answer your last question, luckily enough I was on project based work and we were allowed to do things, unlike the poor BAU Team. and to be totally honest, some DBA's take the easy way out and look at it purely as work and money coming in.
~Silverfox~
In a world of TLA's it would be nice if people would explain the ones they use without assuming everyone knows what it means. BAU??
August 19, 2009 at 1:31 am
My Humble Apologies.
BAU - Business as Usual
which is what most Production DBA's do 😉
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[highlight]solve commonly asked questions[/highlight]
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help by Jeff Moden[/url]
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