February 10, 2017 at 11:30 am
If you don't have a working knowledge of T-SQL, then you're going to be handicapped when it comes to database administration or business intelligence.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 10, 2017 at 11:33 am
Jeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 9:22 AMI'll submit that if you don't like T-SQL, you probably shouldn't be a DBA or any of those other things. 😉
I was actually referring to full time SQL developer, writing stored procs and functions all day 🙂 I did that, didn't like it, flipped to full time admin and have had 16 great years since then.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Standing in the gap between Consultant and ContractorKevin3NFDallasDBAs.com/BlogWhy is my SQL Log File HUGE?!?![/url]The future of the DBA role...[/url]SQL Security Model in Plain English[/url]
February 10, 2017 at 2:53 pm
I actually started as an electronics assembler, then moved up to Tier 1 IT (Have you tried turning it off and on again? <-- I used that line a lot and it often fixed things) then over to software developer and finally a DBA. DBA is where I am the most comfortable and even with everything I know, I pop into these forums and learn something new almost every day. And even when I don't hit these forums (like yesterday when we had tons of abnormal blocking and minidumps from SQL Server... that was a fun panic that we have since corrected... 3rd party software update caused some issues), I still try to learn something.
I lasted a good 5 years working as a "DBA" with no formal training before I bit the bullet and went for the first level - MTA: Database Fundamentals. Spent more time trying to get the moderator to accept my setup than I did writing the test but got me motivated to look at higher certifications. Hoping to move up the certification flag pole. They look good on resumes if you need to change jobs (at least here in Canada).
That being said, I'm not as saught after as Jeff Moden; I've yet to have a call from any company offering me a job. But I don't mind as I am quite enjoying my work here. I get to head a SQL 2008 R2 and SQL 2012 upgrade to 2016! And hopefully I can be part of the decommissioning of our 2005/2000 instances. Those things I don't touch unless something is on fire.
BUT being a DBA by title, still means I do software development and code review and server side software patches... It's not just tuning, tweaking and playing on SQL. It all depends on who you work for.
The above is all just my opinion on what you should do.
As with all advice you find on a random internet forum - you shouldn't blindly follow it. Always test on a test server to see if there is negative side effects before making changes to live!
I recommend you NEVER run "random code" you found online on any system you care about UNLESS you understand and can verify the code OR you don't care if the code trashes your system.
February 10, 2017 at 4:49 pm
Kevin3NF - Friday, February 10, 2017 11:33 AMJeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 9:22 AMI'll submit that if you don't like T-SQL, you probably shouldn't be a DBA or any of those other things. 😉I was actually referring to full time SQL developer, writing stored procs and functions all day 🙂 I did that, didn't like it, flipped to full time admin and have had 16 great years since then.
And you never use T-SQL as a full time admin?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 10, 2017 at 5:03 pm
When I read threads like this I realize that different people have different learning styles, and what works for one person may not work well for another. Maybe someone will build a flowchart that says "If reading books/watching videos/reading blogs/attending bootcamps/breaking things then fixing them, etc. works for you, do this, this or this..."
February 12, 2017 at 10:31 am
Just to further support my position on having an in-depth knowledge of "SQL" (T-SQL in our world) regardless of what you decide to specialize on, please see the following article where knowledge of "SQL" is the most sought after language knowledge of them all and keeps growing as a sought after skill.
https://www.techworm.net/2017/02/top-9-demand-programming-languages-2017.html
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 12, 2017 at 5:54 pm
Jeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 4:49 PMKevin3NF - Friday, February 10, 2017 11:33 AMJeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 9:22 AMI'll submit that if you don't like T-SQL, you probably shouldn't be a DBA or any of those other things. 😉I was actually referring to full time SQL developer, writing stored procs and functions all day 🙂 I did that, didn't like it, flipped to full time admin and have had 16 great years since then.
And you never use T-SQL as a full time admin?
Sigh...of course. Every day. And you know that. You also know there is a big difference between an admin doing a Select from a DMV to find index fragmentation info, and a developer such as yourself spending 3 days writing the core procedure of the new database that will run the company. I was trying to agree with you. I'll stop that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Standing in the gap between Consultant and ContractorKevin3NFDallasDBAs.com/BlogWhy is my SQL Log File HUGE?!?![/url]The future of the DBA role...[/url]SQL Security Model in Plain English[/url]
February 13, 2017 at 7:09 am
Database performance tuning is one of the four pillars of a competent well rounded DBA. You're handicapped in that regard if you don't know T-SQL. Even if you're not the guy who codes the stored procedures, because that would involve knowing the business process and functional aspects of the application, you should have a broad knowledge of T-SQL coding and optimization in general.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 13, 2017 at 7:58 am
Kevin3NF - Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:54 PMJeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 4:49 PMKevin3NF - Friday, February 10, 2017 11:33 AMJeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 9:22 AMI'll submit that if you don't like T-SQL, you probably shouldn't be a DBA or any of those other things. 😉I was actually referring to full time SQL developer, writing stored procs and functions all day 🙂 I did that, didn't like it, flipped to full time admin and have had 16 great years since then.
And you never use T-SQL as a full time admin?
Sigh...of course. Every day. And you know that. You also know there is a big difference between an admin doing a Select from a DMV to find index fragmentation info, and a developer such as yourself spending 3 days writing the core procedure of the new database that will run the company. I was trying to agree with you. I'll stop that.
Apologies for what appeared to be a dig. I didn't mean to come across that way. It's just that I've become a bit sour on what some people have come to think as to what a DBA should know. Most (~80%) of the DBAs claiming 10 or more years of experience on their resumes don't even know how to get the current date and time using T-SQL (and I wish I were making that up but it's sadly true) never mind knowing how to do a backup without buying a 3rd party tool. I've also interviewed several performance-tuning "experts" (also claiming more than 10 years experience) with similar disappointing results. Heh... when I asked one of them about clustered indexes, he said he's never had cause to use one because he never worked on clustered servers. The same disappoint has appeared across the board for various "professions". DBA, BI, Reporting "expert", etc, etc. I've even interviewed a fellow who had a PHD in Mathematics (and I verified that through the school he was associated with) that was interviewing for the Lead Developer position. Since we worked with a lot of numbering system conversions, I asked him to convert 1416 to Decimal. I first had to explain what the subscripted 16 meant (base identifier) and then his comment was that he would need a piece of paper and a pencil to figure it out. C'mon... Seriously?
So again, my apologies for coming across the wrong way.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 13, 2017 at 8:38 am
Jeff Moden - Monday, February 13, 2017 7:58 AMKevin3NF - Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:54 PMJeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 4:49 PMKevin3NF - Friday, February 10, 2017 11:33 AMJeff Moden - Friday, February 10, 2017 9:22 AMI'll submit that if you don't like T-SQL, you probably shouldn't be a DBA or any of those other things. 😉I was actually referring to full time SQL developer, writing stored procs and functions all day 🙂 I did that, didn't like it, flipped to full time admin and have had 16 great years since then.
And you never use T-SQL as a full time admin?
Sigh...of course. Every day. And you know that. You also know there is a big difference between an admin doing a Select from a DMV to find index fragmentation info, and a developer such as yourself spending 3 days writing the core procedure of the new database that will run the company. I was trying to agree with you. I'll stop that.
Apologies for what appeared to be a dig. I didn't mean to come across that way. It's just that I've become a bit sour on what some people have come to think as to what a DBA should know. Most (~80%) of the DBAs claiming 10 or more years of experience on their resumes don't even know how to get the current date and time using T-SQL (and I wish I were making that up but it's sadly true) never mind knowing how to do a backup without buying a 3rd party tool. I've also interviewed several performance-tuning "experts" (also claiming more than 10 years experience) with similar disappointing results. Heh... when I asked one of them about clustered indexes, he said he's never had cause to use one because he never worked on clustered servers. The same disappoint has appeared across the board for various "professions". DBA, BI, Reporting "expert", etc, etc. I've even interviewed a fellow who had a PHD in Mathematics (and I verified that through the school he was associated with) that was interviewing for the Lead Developer position. Since we worked with a lot of numbering system conversions, I asked him to convert 1416 to Decimal. I first had to explain what the subscripted 16 meant (base identifier) and then his comment was that he would need a piece of paper and a pencil to figure it out. C'mon... Seriously?
So again, my apologies for coming across the wrong way.
heh... off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that 1416 to decimal would be 20... but I lack a PhD in mathematics 😛
And that is pretty sad not knowing getdate() function. And even with backups, if you don't know the exact syntax (which a DBA should), you can always load up SSMS, right-click on the database and select backup. Pick your options, hit the script button and poof, you have the T-SQL to back up a database without any 3rd party tools.
And any DBA who doesn't know clustered vs non-clustered indexes I'd be very hesitant to hire.
I know I am no "expert", not even close. Only have 7 years experience as a DBA and I still see myself as a beginner. I learn new stuff all the time. Some things that people had been using for years. I only started using windowing functions in 2015 and prior to that I didn't even know for sure what they were. I have progressed a lot as a DBA simply by doing the DBA work and looking at slow queries in our test instances and trying new things.
I still need to get into CTE's, but learning new things every day. One day I'll learn how to properly use CTE's.
The above is all just my opinion on what you should do.
As with all advice you find on a random internet forum - you shouldn't blindly follow it. Always test on a test server to see if there is negative side effects before making changes to live!
I recommend you NEVER run "random code" you found online on any system you care about UNLESS you understand and can verify the code OR you don't care if the code trashes your system.
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