February 10, 2009 at 2:28 pm
[font="Verdana"]My experience with Oracle pre-dates SQL Developer being an Oracle product. Did Oracle purchase the tool-set of the same name? (A far better choice than TOAD, if so.)
I haven't had a play with this tool, but it may well address some of my concerns about the Oracle toolset.
I'm afraid far too much of my Oracle development was done in a Text Editor, and either a command line or Telnet session into SQL*Plus.
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February 10, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I'm afraid far too much of my Oracle development was done in a Text Editor, and either a command line or Telnet session into SQL*Plus.
That is the issue to me and I used Toad until 2007 when we got SQL Developer from the Oracle site. It is visual but still not as good as SQL Server Express SMS.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
February 10, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Gift Peddie (2/10/2009)
I have used most and Oracle's SQL developer is not as good as SQL Server Express management studio.
snigger, and you think my statement was emphatic ROTFL
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
February 10, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I'm using 50:50 PL/SQL Developer and SQL*Plus. Actually I think these funky shmunky GUI tools on the one hand are good if they enhance one's productivity, but bad because usually developers are soooo used to them, so that when they go to client with SQL*Plus only, they are helpless. So I'm keeping up to date my skills with SQL*Plus and are quite happy in case it is the only available tool. A good DBA (I'm not DBA) also don't need anything more than SQL*Plus. No funky shmunky enterprise managers. Everything can be done in SQL*Plus. And for DBAs it is even more serious than developers, because there are quite many clients without any other tool.
Gints Plivna
http://www.gplivna.eu
February 10, 2009 at 2:53 pm
[font="Verdana"]I don't disagree with any of what you have said. But it's the old argument of why I used to use vi rather than emacs.
Personally, I'd rather use an RDBMS where I know every client is going to have a good toolset available, rather than have to resort to the lowest common denominator.[/font]
February 10, 2009 at 2:57 pm
gints.plivna (2/10/2009)
I'm using 50:50 PL/SQL Developer and SQL*Plus. Actually I think these funky shmunky GUI tools on the one hand are good if they enhance one's productivity, but bad because usually developers are soooo used to them, so that when they go to client with SQL*Plus only, they are helpless. So I'm keeping up to date my skills with SQL*Plus and are quite happy in case it is the only available tool. A good DBA (I'm not DBA) also don't need anything more than SQL*Plus. No funky shmunky enterprise managers. Everything can be done in SQL*Plus. And for DBAs it is even more serious than developers, because there are quite many clients without any other tool.
If I ever run into a job with SQL Server where I can't get a copy of Management Studio (or QA and EM), or something even better, then I'll just get my own copy of them. I have a copy of Dev Studio, I can install SSMS on any computer I like per the license.
If I were interviewing and found that the prospective employer expected me to use a command-line interface to the server as my only tool, I'd tell them the interview was over and have a nice day.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 10, 2009 at 3:09 pm
GSquared (2/10/2009)
If I were interviewing and found that the prospective employer expected me to use a command-line interface to the server as my only tool, I'd tell them the interview was over and have a nice day.
The problem is that many people (including myself) are working in companies focusing on development and having sometimes many customers (ok we have some) and some of these customers have strict rules of installing NOTHING more than a, b, c. And what if my favourite tool isn't in these a, b, c? SQL*Plus is everywhere, so no problem.
So what do you think an usual boss of an usual company would do - fire the customer or fire the developer? 😉
Gints Plivna
http://www.gplivna.eu
February 10, 2009 at 3:10 pm
GSquared (2/10/2009)
If I were interviewing and found that the prospective employer expected me to use a command-line interface to the server as my only tool, I'd tell them the interview was over and have a nice day.
[font="Verdana"]Dude! PowerShell and SQLCMD! :w00t:[/font]
February 10, 2009 at 3:23 pm
gints.plivna (2/10/2009)
GSquared (2/10/2009)
If I were interviewing and found that the prospective employer expected me to use a command-line interface to the server as my only tool, I'd tell them the interview was over and have a nice day.
The problem is that many people (including myself) are working in companies focusing on development and having sometimes many customers (ok we have some) and some of these customers have strict rules of installing NOTHING more than a, b, c. And what if my favourite tool isn't in these a, b, c? SQL*Plus is everywhere, so no problem.
So what do you think an usual boss of an usual company would do - fire the customer or fire the developer? 😉
In my case, never hire the developer in the first place, as I already mentioned. Can't fire someone who never worked for you in the first place.
I would seriously question the intelligence of anyone who insisted on not using standard tools for getting a job done. If they hire a plumber, do they insist that he not use any wrenches? If they want a carpenter, do they tell him he can't use any saws, drills, hammers or nailguns, but must instead work with fingernails and teeth? Require an electrician to not use anything with an insulated grip? By the same standard, if they hire a DBA, they should expect the DBA to use a set of expected, modern tools.
I'm not going to state that no business would be as bone-headed as that. Idiotic, productivity-killing rules are far too common in far too many industries. I am, however, going to state that I will almost certainly never work for any of them.
If it comes down to a choice of being employed as a DBA at all or using the tools I want/need to get the job done well and efficiently, I'll go back to carpentry and electrical work if I have to. Heck, I'll go back to ranching and farming if I have to. I've done all of those before, and I'm good at them. It's not that I feel that strongly about Management Studio, it's that, if they have idiotic rules about that, then it's a pretty sure bet they have idiotic rules about everything else too, and it's going to be more pain than it's worth to work for them.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 10, 2009 at 3:52 pm
snigger, and you think my statement was emphatic ROTFL
The SQL Server Express Tool Kit edition comes with Management Studio and Reports creating BIDs. The funny thing is the reporting tool used in Local mode with the Visual Studio Reports Viewer Control uses Oracle queries. So the question is can you use Oracle SQL Developer to run SQL Server code in any mode and the answer is no. All of these are free for developers to use and distribute.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
February 10, 2009 at 3:58 pm
[font="Verdana"]I think what you are saying is that you can use the Microsoft toolset against Oracle, but not the other way around?
I'm just glad we're not talking about the Sybase toolset... :hehe:
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February 10, 2009 at 5:29 pm
SQL developer can be used with Microsoft databases you just need to obtain and install the java library
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
February 10, 2009 at 5:48 pm
The SQL Server Tool Kit edition in local mode used with either Winform or Webform ReportViewer control uses ADO.NET dataset so the query can be any DBMs and custom collections.
These are SSRS not required reports.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
February 10, 2009 at 10:38 pm
A very good DBA can get by with SQLCMD (or isql/osql), but why should they? I loved QA, which required command line work, but it also gave me many features like easily browsing table or column names while writing SQL. However there are times, one-off items or quick checks that can be done well with Enterprise Manager.
Needed? No
Helpful? Extremely. And it makes you more productive.
I haven't used the Oracle tools in some time, but a decade ago they sucked. They could do the job, but they required way more effort on the part of the DBA, and wasted his/her time.
February 11, 2009 at 1:48 am
I use SQL developer even against SQL server databases, it offers me JDBC connectivity to SQL, Oracle, Sybase and even Access.
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"Ya can't make an omelette without breaking just a few eggs" 😉
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