May 16, 2012 at 8:45 am
I have a client with a Point of Sale system that the vendor of the PoS has left on a woefully undersized server. The vendor's recommendation was to go to the next undersized server considering the client is growing and adding locations. This has shaken the client's confidence in the vendor, and they have turned to us to help them out. The previous hardware was non-brand/home built server. The current environment has the server with SBS 2003 R2 - Dual Core Xeon - 4 GB of RAM- 500 GB HD (On on board RAID). They also use it as their DC and File Server. No wonder it runs at 6.5 GB of RAM and crashes every day. The other locations are have PoS systems that are connecting back to this as the main server, but from what I can tell, they have local databases that are replicating back to the SBS server. One "Server" is an XP Workstation - the other two are Server 2003 R2 and Server 2008 R2. The database is running on SQL Server 2005 Workgroup edition.
** BANGS HEAD SOME MORE - I will get to the question in a moment - sorry.
Ok - so we will be putting them on a real HP Proliant with RAID 10 (4 1 TB Drives) - 6 core - 24 GB of RAM. That is the current plan at least. I will use volume licensing for Server 2008 R2, CALS, and SQL 2012, etc. The server will be database only. They are planning on adding 3 more locations right away and looking to grow after that. I would like to rebuild the old server with Server 2008 R2 (add RAM) and have it be DC, FS, etc.
So I have several concerns about this database.
1) The manufacturer does not indicate that they have tested with SQL Server 2012. I have an email in to them. The quote from the PoS vendor did have SQL Server 2008 listed in the specs on Server 2008 R2. So I am expecting that we should be able to transition the database to SQL Server 2008. So the question is here - what issues would we have with 2012? Everything I have read indicates that there is a transition tool for 2005 to 2012. I don't have a machine local to the SQL 2005 server to run the transition tool at the moment, but I will have my local guy go onsite to do testing before the final decision. I do plan to have the vendor do the PoS transition work. I just need to be able to call BS on them if they say something can't be done.
2) I was trying to recalculate the database size after the 32-bit to 64-bit transition. From what I have read, increasing the estimated size by about 1/3-1/2 more should be safe when calculating disk size. From first hand experiences, do you feel this is accurate? I might be able to drop down to (4) 500 GB drives and save them some money if it is.
3) Looking through the server is a mess. Looking through folders used for deploying software I see SQL Server 2005 Express, SQL Server 2005, SQL Server 2008. In the Programs menu, I see Visual Studio Tools 2005 - they were never run until I loaded the first time. SBS Came with SQL Server 2005 Worgroup - which is what their app needs. Looking in the programs menu, I see tools for configuring SQL 500, 2008, and 2008 R2. Then I looked in the Services and Applications - I see two instances of SQL 2005 services. When I check the actual version running, it is 9.0.3080. So I am guessing they attempted to upgrade and ran into a problem. The database appears to be under 4 GB. I am wondering if the best thing to do is to just take a copy of the database and try to migrate it on a test box. Any thoughts on this? (Other than run away - lol)
4) What am I not thinking of? I figure worst case I should be able to exercise the downgrade right for SQL Server 2012 to 2008. But I keep thinking this should not be this big of an issue.
THANKS!
May 26, 2012 at 5:54 pm
You ask a lot of questions here, and I can only answer a few right now.
Brian Souder (5/16/2012)
2) I was trying to recalculate the database size after the 32-bit to 64-bit transition. From what I have read, increasing the estimated size by about 1/3-1/2 more should be safe when calculating disk size. From first hand experiences, do you feel this is accurate? I might be able to drop down to (4) 500 GB drives and save them some money if it is.
The database format is unaffected by this, there is no difference in the on-disk file format for 32bit vs 64bit. Memory, on the other hand, is a different story ...
3) ... I am wondering if the best thing to do is to just take a copy of the database and try to migrate it on a test box. Any thoughts on this? (Other than run away - lol)
This is an excellent approach and I highly recommend that you do this.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
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May 29, 2012 at 7:15 am
Brian Souder (5/16/2012)
I have a client with a Point of Sale system that the vendor of the PoS has left on a woefully undersized server. The vendor's recommendation was to go to the next undersized server considering the client is growing and adding locations. This has shaken the client's confidence in the vendor, and they have turned to us to help them out. The previous hardware was non-brand/home built server. The current environment has the server with SBS 2003 R2 - Dual Core Xeon - 4 GB of RAM- 500 GB HD (On on board RAID). They also use it as their DC and File Server. No wonder it runs at 6.5 GB of RAM and crashes every day. The other locations are have PoS systems that are connecting back to this as the main server, but from what I can tell, they have local databases that are replicating back to the SBS server. One "Server" is an XP Workstation - the other two are Server 2003 R2 and Server 2008 R2. The database is running on SQL Server 2005 Workgroup edition.** BANGS HEAD SOME MORE - I will get to the question in a moment - sorry.
Ok - so we will be putting them on a real HP Proliant with RAID 10 (4 1 TB Drives) - 6 core - 24 GB of RAM. That is the current plan at least. I will use volume licensing for Server 2008 R2, CALS, and SQL 2012, etc. The server will be database only. They are planning on adding 3 more locations right away and looking to grow after that. I would like to rebuild the old server with Server 2008 R2 (add RAM) and have it be DC, FS, etc.
So I have several concerns about this database.
1) The manufacturer does not indicate that they have tested with SQL Server 2012. I have an email in to them. The quote from the PoS vendor did have SQL Server 2008 listed in the specs on Server 2008 R2. So I am expecting that we should be able to transition the database to SQL Server 2008. So the question is here - what issues would we have with 2012? Everything I have read indicates that there is a transition tool for 2005 to 2012. I don't have a machine local to the SQL 2005 server to run the transition tool at the moment, but I will have my local guy go onsite to do testing before the final decision. I do plan to have the vendor do the PoS transition work. I just need to be able to call BS on them if they say something can't be done.
2) I was trying to recalculate the database size after the 32-bit to 64-bit transition. From what I have read, increasing the estimated size by about 1/3-1/2 more should be safe when calculating disk size. From first hand experiences, do you feel this is accurate? I might be able to drop down to (4) 500 GB drives and save them some money if it is.
3) Looking through the server is a mess. Looking through folders used for deploying software I see SQL Server 2005 Express, SQL Server 2005, SQL Server 2008. In the Programs menu, I see Visual Studio Tools 2005 - they were never run until I loaded the first time. SBS Came with SQL Server 2005 Worgroup - which is what their app needs. Looking in the programs menu, I see tools for configuring SQL 500, 2008, and 2008 R2. Then I looked in the Services and Applications - I see two instances of SQL 2005 services. When I check the actual version running, it is 9.0.3080. So I am guessing they attempted to upgrade and ran into a problem. The database appears to be under 4 GB. I am wondering if the best thing to do is to just take a copy of the database and try to migrate it on a test box. Any thoughts on this? (Other than run away - lol)
4) What am I not thinking of? I figure worst case I should be able to exercise the downgrade right for SQL Server 2012 to 2008. But I keep thinking this should not be this big of an issue.
THANKS!
A) your request(s) go WAY beyond a forum thread for help.
B) You MUST consider the new pricing of SQL 2012, which is PER CORE, often making it WAY more expensive, even if you desire to downgrade. And also note that once upgraded, a database cannot be restored or used on a down-version SQL Server.
Best,
Kevin G. Boles
SQL Server Consultant
SQL MVP 2007-2012
TheSQLGuru on googles mail service
May 30, 2012 at 5:56 am
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I figured it was a lot to ask. However, you hit the nail on the head. The SQL Server 2012 was cost prohibitive to the client for upgrade at this time. To make matters worse, the vendor flat out refused to support SQL Server 2012 at this time. Then turned around and suggested they purchase a terminal server to fix the problem. The current server is SBS 2003 - no terminal server. So the client is having us look for a new PoS vender. They figure if the vendor does not even understand the problem they caused, they are not worth staying with.
June 20, 2012 at 10:59 am
TheSQLGuru (5/29/2012)
A) your request(s) go WAY beyond a forum thread for help.
B) You MUST consider the new pricing of SQL 2012, which is PER CORE, often making it WAY more expensive, even if you desire to downgrade. And also note that once upgraded, a database cannot be restored or used on a down-version SQL Server.
Isn't there CAL pricing too ?
According to a "chat" I just had, since I am also thinking about this:
Support: SQL Server 2012 Standard edition can be licensed per user, and ballparks at $175-$250 per Client Access License, and for each physical server it would be $750 to $1100.
Support: Going per core, it would ballpark at $3000 to $4500.
June 20, 2012 at 12:16 pm
This is correct from the information I gathered after posting this.
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