November 17, 2017 at 8:20 am
ddodge2 - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:35 AMI haven't decided yet on whether or not I'd like to see someone come up with a product with the acronym "SHINGLE".:Whistling:
SHell INteGrated Language Environment..?
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
November 17, 2017 at 8:30 am
Based on all this feedback, it looks like Microsoft does not quite have a hit with this product. They will work on improving it and then release an updated version called Special SOS and that will do the trick...
Happy Friday all!
Hakim Ali
www.sqlzen.com
November 17, 2017 at 8:36 am
Thom A - Friday, November 17, 2017 8:20 AMddodge2 - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:35 AMI haven't decided yet on whether or not I'd like to see someone come up with a product with the acronym "SHINGLE".:Whistling:
SHell INteGrated Language Environment..?
Ha ha ha ha!!
Brilliant!
To be clear, this was just in fun. I happen to be of the opinion that the whole cross-platform push makes a lot of sense. And, besides, Microsoft has, at a minimum, two more revs before they get it right. 😉 The encouraging thing there is that they truly understand ham and eggs - they understand commitment.
November 17, 2017 at 9:25 am
I've not been involved with SQL Server as long as you have, Steve. I don't remember Query Analyzer, but I do remember Enterprise Manager. Used that for a few years, until SSMS came out. I've kept up with each interface as it came about.
I've downloaded and extracted SQL Operations Studio. After 5 minutes these are my impressions. It does look like VS Code and it also reminds me of Azure. It is very GUI intensive, or at least that's my impression after only a few minutes use. I read the blog entry you linked to which tells me that Microsoft is targeting different audiences with this; both the senior DBA as well as the accidental DBA , so I see the need to make it GUI friendly for the poor guy who happened to be nearest the server when the DBA walked out.
It looks good, but I guess I'm not wildly enthused about it. I don't like having to download, extrgact and place a shortcut onto my desktop, but I guess that's probably what you get with preview, so I'll let that pass. I'll give it a go for a while and see what I think.
There are 2 things that concern me about this whole thing. First, a few months ago I downloaded SQL Server Management Studio v17, because I read about it here. I really like that and have adopted it for whenever I need to get into most of our databases. We do still have some older DB's that v17 won't work with so I keep an older SSMS around for those. But what I don't get is this SOS coming out. Huh? I thought v17 was the direction Microsoft was going, now this?
By the way, the name with the acronym is a horrible choice. I'm going to call it Ops Studio.
The other thing that bothers me is saving the code to GitHub. I've got an account on GitHub, but haven't really used it much. My point is that, from what little I've used GitHub I believe it is primarily an open repository. I really don't want our SQL code out there where anyone can look at it.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
November 17, 2017 at 10:08 am
Kyrilluk - Friday, November 17, 2017 1:44 AMI find it hard to understand who is this piece of software is for. At first, after reading the doc, I thought it was for junior DBA/BI. This is true that you cannot do much beside the basics SQL statements. If you don't know how to create or modify a column there are some useful snippets. You can export easily the result of the SQL into CSV, Jason and Excel (I haven't test if it deals well with commas and return carriage characters in a column but I expect that in 2017 Microsoft must have solved this issue). I was very excited when I saw the "chart viewer". I mean, how great would it be to be able to analyse on the fly the data we are generating (visualizing for example the distribution of nulls values within a table, having the ability of doing histogram and scatter plot without having to export the data into Power BI, Excel or R/Python)?
But then I was very disappointed to see how un-intuitive is the interface: who want to learn to code in Jason in order to get a simple scatter plot? I mean, seriously?? I wouldn't expect a junior DBA/BI wanted to waste time to learn to code in Jason when it is fast and easy to get the same result in Power BI. And expert users are probably going to stay away.
Give it a try and some time. I, too, am torn on this. Not sure if I like it or not.
November 17, 2017 at 10:09 am
Rod at work - Friday, November 17, 2017 9:25 AMI've not been involved with SQL SErver as long as you have, Steve. I don't remember Query Analyzer, but I do remember Enterprise Manager. Used that for a few years, until SSMS came out. I've kept up with each interface as it came about.I've downloaded and extracted SQL Operations Studio. After 5 minutes these are my impressions. It does look like VS Code and it also reminds me of Azure. It is very GUI intensive, or at least that's my impression after only a few minutes use. I read the blog entry you linked to which tells me that Microsoft is targeting different audiences with this; both the senior DBA as well as the accidental DBA , so I see the need to make it GUI friendly for the poor guy who happened to be nearest the server when the DBA walked out.
It looks good, but I guess I'm not wildly enthused about it. I don't like having to download, extrgact and place a shortcut onto my desktop, but I guess that's probably what you get with preview, so I'll let that pass. I'll give it a go for a while and see what I think.
There are 2 things that concern me about this whole thing. First, a few months ago I downloaded SQL Server Management Studio v17, because I read about it here. I really like that and have adopted it for whenever I need to get into most of our databases. We do still have some older DB's that v17 won't work with so I keep an older SSMS around for those. But what I don't get is this SOS coming out. Huh? I thought v17 was the direction Microsoft was going, now this?
By the way, the name with the acronym is a horrible choice. I'm going to call it Ops Studio.
The other thing that bothers me is saving the code to GitHub. I've got an account on GitHub, but haven't really used it much. My point is that, from what little I've used GitHub I believe it is primarily an open repository. I really don't want our SQL code out there where anyone can look at it.
Rod, your code would be available for anyone to see on GitHub unless you paid a fee to make it private. Atlassian's BitBucket on the other hand, for a team of five or less, is free for as many repos as you might wish (last time I looked anyway).
November 17, 2017 at 10:10 am
Rod at work - Friday, November 17, 2017 9:25 AMI've not been involved with SQL Server as long as you have, Steve. I don't remember Query Analyzer, but I do remember Enterprise Manager. Used that for a few years, until SSMS came out. I've kept up with each interface as it came about.
We do still have some older DB's that v17 won't work with so I keep an older SSMS around for those. But what I don't get is this SOS coming out. Huh? I thought v17 was the direction Microsoft was going, now this?...
The other thing that bothers me is saving the code to GitHub. I've got an account on GitHub, but haven't really used it much. My point is that, from what little I've used GitHub I believe it is primarily an open repository. I really don't want our SQL code out there where anyone can look at it.
SSMS will continue to see development. Both SSMS and SOS are going to be available for the future. Like VS and VSCode.
Github allows private code. I've been on the SOS repo for months, which was limited to MS and some MVPs. Most of our RG code is in Github, but not visible to the public.
November 17, 2017 at 10:12 am
chrisn-585491 - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:10 AMMultiple reasons, but that's a huge topic. For myself it's easier to setup, customize and configure. It runs on Raspberry Pi and all of the Top 500 supercomputers. You can scrunch a Linux image down to bare bones plus app code and run it as a custom secure appliance. (See the Nerves project which uses Elixir.) My 6 year old laptop runs well under Fedora, but crawls with Windows. I still have Windows VM at home for two reasons: Excel/Word and a few other custom hardware devices, (radios, test equipment), that don't have a Linux port. (Mainly to upgrade firmware.) Almost all of my current Windows work is at the office.Bash still works better in it's native environment, just like SQL Server. 😎
Great points. I was going to say that there are plenty of environments where it's not cost, but skillset or consistency where they want Linux for SQL Server. They only have Windows for SQL Server, which changes their security model, integration, etc. with other servers.
November 17, 2017 at 10:46 am
peter.row - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:30 AMThom A - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:19 AMpeter.row - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:14 AMHave you tried Windows 10 IoT edition - which runs on a Raspberry Pi
Yes, however, have you tried running Word on that..? How about Excel? It's not really "Windows" as we know it.
No, but then again what office/artist/cad apps are you running on Linux on a Raspberry Pi, and how well do those run?
I get the set-up/config preference, but the other things are irrelevant. Doesn't matter if it runs on a toaster or a mug or whatever wacky uses, I don't work on a toaster/mug and hence the ability for it to do so mean nothing.
Various people in the computer fixing business and other hardware based things have said to me that Win10 runs better on older hardware than either 7 or 8.
Raspberry Pi and Beagle Bones are used as radio controllers and single app machines where a microcontroller is too small and larger conventional machines are too large. They could be used as a workstation, but most modern apps are too bloated/resource intensive. Here's some linkages for applications and such for small systems. (BTW, I hate the IoT moniker, it's pseudo-geek marketing at it's worst.)
http://kiwisdr.com/
http://nerves-project.org/watch/
https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/41vbs8/new_persons_guide_to_the_pi_and_updated_example/?st=ja46khl6&sh=35eaa9e4
My home desktop and server run Fedora on a Dell laptop and tower respectively. They work well for my development and personal computing needs. We keep a couple of Windows machines in the house for the spouse. Occasionally I load a Windows VM or borrow her machine to update BIOS on specific radios where there isn't a Linux port.
My favorite MS app on Linux is Visual Code, but I wouldn't try to run it on a Pi... :hehe:
November 17, 2017 at 11:06 am
peter.row - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:30 AMThom A - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:19 AMpeter.row - Friday, November 17, 2017 7:14 AMHave you tried Windows 10 IoT edition - which runs on a Raspberry Pi
Yes, however, have you tried running Word on that..? How about Excel? It's not really "Windows" as we know it.
No, but then again what office/artist/cad apps are you running on Linux on a Raspberry Pi, and how well do those run?
I get the set-up/config preference, but the other things are irrelevant. Doesn't matter if it runs on a toaster or a mug or whatever wacky uses, I don't work on a toaster/mug and hence the ability for it to do so mean nothing.
Various people in the computer fixing business and other hardware based things have said to me that Win10 runs better on older hardware than either 7 or 8.
VSCode has a port for the the Pi, which runs really well on Ubuntu-Mate. I actually quite like that OS on the Pi3, and yes, Word Processing, Spreadsheets aren't too bad on it. You can't run OS UI on Windows IoT.
Although Pi's they are low spec, set up correctly they work incredibly well.
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
November 17, 2017 at 3:22 pm
Rod at work - Friday, November 17, 2017 9:25 AMThe other thing that bothers me is saving the code to GitHub. I've got an account on GitHub, but haven't really used it much. My point is that, from what little I've used GitHub I believe it is primarily an open repository. I really don't want our SQL code out there where anyone can look at it.
I haven't looked at this part of it yet but I'm going to bet you could configure it to use a local GitLab repo instead of working directly on GitHub. Time to pester the local Git gurus at work and see if we can make that work.
November 17, 2017 at 6:08 pm
November 19, 2017 at 9:41 am
ddodge2 - Friday, November 17, 2017 10:09 AMRod at work - Friday, November 17, 2017 9:25 AMI've not been involved with SQL SErver as long as you have, Steve. I don't remember Query Analyzer, but I do remember Enterprise Manager. Used that for a few years, until SSMS came out. I've kept up with each interface as it came about.I've downloaded and extracted SQL Operations Studio. After 5 minutes these are my impressions. It does look like VS Code and it also reminds me of Azure. It is very GUI intensive, or at least that's my impression after only a few minutes use. I read the blog entry you linked to which tells me that Microsoft is targeting different audiences with this; both the senior DBA as well as the accidental DBA , so I see the need to make it GUI friendly for the poor guy who happened to be nearest the server when the DBA walked out.
It looks good, but I guess I'm not wildly enthused about it. I don't like having to download, extrgact and place a shortcut onto my desktop, but I guess that's probably what you get with preview, so I'll let that pass. I'll give it a go for a while and see what I think.
There are 2 things that concern me about this whole thing. First, a few months ago I downloaded SQL Server Management Studio v17, because I read about it here. I really like that and have adopted it for whenever I need to get into most of our databases. We do still have some older DB's that v17 won't work with so I keep an older SSMS around for those. But what I don't get is this SOS coming out. Huh? I thought v17 was the direction Microsoft was going, now this?
By the way, the name with the acronym is a horrible choice. I'm going to call it Ops Studio.
The other thing that bothers me is saving the code to GitHub. I've got an account on GitHub, but haven't really used it much. My point is that, from what little I've used GitHub I believe it is primarily an open repository. I really don't want our SQL code out there where anyone can look at it.
Rod, your code would be available for anyone to see on GitHub unless you paid a fee to make it private. Atlassian's BitBucket on the other hand, for a team of five or less, is free for as many repos as you might wish (last time I looked anyway).
Oh! OK, I wasn't aware of that fact with GitHub. Thanks.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
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