April 24, 2012 at 9:27 am
TravisDBA (4/24/2012)
Again, classic drug user logic. Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? 😀
Just seems like proper logic to me.
April 24, 2012 at 9:33 am
If you tax drugs there'll still be a black market to avoid the tax, so you'll keep the problems of quality control.
Really? There is pretty much no black market in alcohol over here in the UK and we tax that quite heavily (not as much as Scandinavian countries, and I don't believe they have much of an alcohol black market either.) I know you still have a small moonshine market over there in the states, probably a hangover from the prohibition days, but it's not huge, is it? Nothing like as large as the legal market.
Getting the tax level right is important. I'd recommend setting it so prices match what's on the illegal market to start with, then gradually increasing them to price them out of the reach of children. From what I read the price of drugs is pretty much the same now as it was when I was at college, which is a long, long time ago, so in real terms they are much cheaper, and that is just wrong. That would not be the case if they were legal. It isn't for alcohol, and the price of cigarettes nowadays is shocking (at least over here.) Makes me really glad I no longer smoke.
April 24, 2012 at 9:40 am
The old sin tax is always the answer huh?
Cheers
April 24, 2012 at 9:46 am
Which company is going to be prepared to take the risk associated with using their products? "I bought your dope for my (21 year old) son and he hasn't been the same since. Give me compensation." And what of the government: they would be legalising something they know to be harmful. Would they pass loads of laws to say '...except for recreational drugs'?
April 24, 2012 at 9:49 am
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)And what of the government: they would be legalising something they know to be harmful.
To be fair here, this is already the case for tobacco and alcohol, both of which cause long-term health problems as well!
April 24, 2012 at 9:50 am
paul.knibbs (4/24/2012)
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)And what of the government: they would be legalising something they know to be harmful.
To be fair here, this is already the case for tobacco and alcohol, both of which cause long-term health problems as well!
Plus, many of the illegal drugs today weren't illegal many years ago.
April 24, 2012 at 10:00 am
paul.knibbs (4/24/2012)
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)And what of the government: they would be legalising something they know to be harmful.
To be fair here, this is already the case for tobacco and alcohol, both of which cause long-term health problems as well!
Tis true, but both came out a long while before our litigious culture grew to its current state, so there's a lot of inherited immunity. Thankfully new products don't benefit from the same exemptions.
April 24, 2012 at 10:02 am
Lynn Pettis (4/24/2012)[/bPlus, many of the illegal drugs today weren't illegal many years ago.
Are we talking horse tranquilisers and powdered paint?
April 24, 2012 at 10:03 am
Lynn Pettis (4/24/2012)
paul.knibbs (4/24/2012)
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)And what of the government: they would be legalising something they know to be harmful.
To be fair here, this is already the case for tobacco and alcohol, both of which cause long-term health problems as well!
Plus, many of the illegal drugs today weren't illegal many years ago.
I believe it was the 1960s before some drugs became illegal over here. Cocaine was definitely legal in the 1920s. (Probably not in the states where you were already prohiting booze. I tell you, I would join a violent revolution against any government that tried to take away my beer.)
It should also be pointed out that Alcohol is a very dangerous drug, which some consider to be more dangerous then many of the illegal ones.
April 24, 2012 at 10:22 am
Freddie-304292 (4/24/2012)It should also be pointed out that Alcohol is a very dangerous drug, which some consider to be more dangerous then many of the illegal ones.
Indeed, if alcohol were to be introduced now, it would have a hard job making it through type/FDA approval.
So following your argument, let's have the equivalent of an opium den in every neighbourhood for those who'd like to imbibe. It may do wonders for literature and art (did the legalisers think of that one 🙂 ), but at what cost? We can't put the people adversly affected in the workhouse or Bedlam any more: it's care in the community now. So we'll have a high(er) proportion of our population as paranoid delusionals wondering where their friends and families went. Most of them will make it into politics because they're no good at actually doing or making anything, and they're perfect for the job because they already know what's good for everyone and don't make friends with nasty people 🙂
April 24, 2012 at 10:31 am
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)
Freddie-304292 (4/24/2012)It should also be pointed out that Alcohol is a very dangerous drug, which some consider to be more dangerous then many of the illegal ones.
Indeed, if alcohol were to be introduced now, it would have a hard job making it through type/FDA approval.
So following your argument, let's have the equivalent of an opium den in every neighbourhood for those who'd like to imbibe. It may do wonders for literature and art (did the legalisers think of that one 🙂 ), but at what cost? We can't put the people adversly affected in the workhouse or Bedlam any more: it's care in the community now. So we'll have a high(er) proportion of our population as paranoid delusionals wondering where their friends and families went. Most of them will make it into politics because they're no good at actually doing or making anything, and they're perfect for the job because they already know what's good for everyone and don't make friends with nasty people 🙂
I don't think we would have a higher proportion of people taking drugs if we legalised them. Most countries where they've relaxed the laws have found the reverse to be true. I think the law is a very small factor in their decision on what drugs to experiment with.
And yeah, I would go for the modern equivalent of the opium den, as I think it's important to split the drugs up with regards to where they're sold. People's willingness to experiment increases with alcohol intake, for example, so selling cocaine in the same premises as alcohol would, IMHO increase those who use it. If people have to leave a bar to go buy drugs, they're less likely to bother.
April 24, 2012 at 10:41 am
Freddie-304292 (4/24/2012)I don't think we would have a higher proportion of people taking drugs if we legalised them.
So your premise is that your everyday law abiding Joe or Joanne would be no more likely to try them when they're legal even though they have an implicit stamp of approval, and he or she would avoid addiction (isn't coke more addictive than alcohol?) and even if they did try them and give up, they would somehow avoid all long term effects. Hmm.
April 24, 2012 at 10:44 am
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)
Freddie-304292 (4/24/2012)I don't think we would have a higher proportion of people taking drugs if we legalised them.
So your premise is that your everyday law abiding Joe or Joanne would be no more likely to try them when they're legal even though they have an implicit stamp of approval, and he or she would avoid addiction (isn't coke more addictive than alcohol?) and even if they did try them and give up, they would somehow avoid all long term effects. Hmm.
Just because something is legal does not mean everyone is going to try it.
April 24, 2012 at 10:50 am
Exactly. Make blow legal but I'm not going to start snorting it.
Cheers
April 24, 2012 at 12:07 pm
You just exactly made my point, you are admitting basically that you are already using (or would use) some type of illegal drug, just not blow at this time because it is currently illegal. (Which BTW is usually a drug user term for this drug anyway). Hence the drug user logic for legalization. They all have a vested interest in it passing. Go figure? 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
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