April 23, 2012 at 1:47 pm
jay-h (4/23/2012)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/23/2012)
djackson 22568 (4/23/2012)
... There are some reasonable expectations about how you conduct yourself, and posting in social media is somewhat equivalent to shouting something in the town square.....
But this is not shouting if you post in private, it's no different from a conversation at the pub... except that this involves demanding the right to review what you said at the pub last year or 3 years ago.
Now we are not talking about criminal issues, because there are already specific mechanisms (with limits) for handling those. This is fishing expeditions, including after-the-fact interpretations of conversations that were never meant for others to view.
The human need for a certain level privacy (and privacy can include interactions with friends) at a primal psychological level. The frightening lesson of 1984 was not so much totalitarianism, which has been around a long time, but the complete crushing of the individual's control over his own thoughts.
I think you're missing the point. When you give out your facebook password, you're not only giving out access to your own private conversations, you are also giving access to things your friends thought were private.
The employer is not only asking you to violate your facebook user agreement, they are also asking you to give all your friends the shaft.
April 23, 2012 at 1:49 pm
dbrumley (4/23/2012)
And yet, you would be upset if you found somebody outside your bedroom handing out binoculars to passersby...
I would feel sorry for the passersby.
If they watch me in the bedroom, they're more likely to end up permanently mentally scarred than anything else. :w00t:
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 23, 2012 at 1:51 pm
GSquared (4/23/2012)
dbrumley (4/23/2012)
And yet, you would be upset if you found somebody outside your bedroom handing out binoculars to passersby...I would feel sorry for the passersby.
If they watch me in the bedroom, they're more likely to end up permanently mentally scarred than anything else. :w00t:
Where is the brain bleach???
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
April 23, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Great article and discussion.
Here is my take on it. If you have a use social media assume that is is not private. Think of it like having a discussion and a restaurant or a user group. You can do things to limit your exposure. However, you can't stop ease droppers.
As far as asking for credentials that should never be an acceptable practice.
As far as everything else. Facebook is an extention of yourself. If they someone doesn't like who you are. Well do you really want to work for that person. A job interview is as much about meeting the needs of the employer as meeting the needs of the employee.
I'm not saying privacy is not important. I'm just state that you make sure to look arround who is arround you before you tell a secret.
April 23, 2012 at 2:50 pm
Great discussion.
I wonder how an employer would react if the candidate said something along the lines: "Many of these things are personal and may involve other people than just me. In order to be fair and even I would expect something similar in return in order to prevent abuse or misuse. The thing that comes to mind is full access to your HR files during the interview process. Additionally I would expect our lawyers to work out a mutually agreeable contract regarding non disclosure of anything you discover on my FB page or anything I discover in your HR files."
April 23, 2012 at 3:15 pm
So let me see if I understand this. You are interviewing me for a SOX privileged user job and you want to know whether I will hand over a user account password you don't have legal access to.
I see through your trickery!
April 24, 2012 at 12:50 am
This tickled something in the back of my head, so I went hunting--found this article. It's pretty old (2004) but it says that, at the time, more than 70% of people would hand over their computer password for a bar of chocolate:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3639679.stm
If they're willing to do that for something so small, what are they willing to do for a job (and hence livelihood)? Of course, one can hope that the idea of security has got a bit deeper into the mainstream than it was 8 years ago...
April 24, 2012 at 1:33 am
paul.knibbs (4/24/2012)...one can hope that the idea of security has got a bit deeper into the mainstream than it was 8 years ago...
Hope springs eternal (Alexander Pope) 🙂
April 24, 2012 at 2:00 am
Dave
I am definitely against the idea of giving out any sort of security credentials or even asking someone to give them out.
The trouble with facebook is that it is not really private in the first place - so from a personal point of view I would be careful of what I post, what groups I follow and even what friends I have. It has suprised me some of the things that friends of mine post, and links that they have which could very easily be misinterpreted by others.
The point I was making about seeing, to a certain extent, where an employer is coming from is to give a better picture - rightly or wrongly. References are sometimes not that reliable as whoever gives out the reference has to be very careful about what they put in it (whether we like it or not - there is even case law on this in the UK). I personally think it is wrong to ask as gaining the information could be used for discrimnation, etc.
On a personal note if asked for this I would walk away from the interview, and if I was doing the interview and asked something like this I would expect to be shown the door by my employer. I would imagine that a lot of the people digging for this type of things are recruitment agencies, etc, not actual empoyers.
April 24, 2012 at 2:03 am
This tickled something in the back of my head, so I went hunting--found this article. It's pretty old (2004) but it says that, at the time, more than 70% of people would hand over their computer password for a bar of chocolate:
But did they actually check how many people gave the REAL password - if people know they'll gain just for giving a password then anyone with a brain would just make something up that wouldn't work and pretend it was the correct one? Or they'd give an old password that has already been changed.
April 24, 2012 at 3:13 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/23/2012)
I'm not sure I want a law enforcement official suggesting that drugs are acceptable,
I would, the drug laws are terrible, causing way more misery then the drugs themselves. Several police chiefs here in the UK have expressed the opinion that the drug laws should be relaxed. Maybe if more of those on the front line say these laws are pointless, we'll get better laws.
April 24, 2012 at 6:54 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/23/2012)
djackson 22568 (4/23/2012)
I'm not sure I want a law enforcement official suggesting that drugs are acceptable, or drinking and driving isn't a big deal when he represents his agency. I'm not sure I want an IT guy working for me talking about SQL Injection not being a big deal, or that every developer he works with is an idiot because they allow SQL Injection. There are some reasonable expectations about how you conduct yourself, and posting in social media is somewhat equivalent to shouting something in the town square.
...
You may not want these things, but there are substantial limits to invasion of private lives you can do in trying to find them out. A store owner may want to know if a potential employee has shoplifted, but that does not give him permission to seach the person's home 'just to check'. It does not give an employer the right to ask for a pregnancy check just because they are concerned about someone taking family leave. And while a person's political or religious views don't belong on company media, people DO have the right to express private opinions to their friends.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
April 24, 2012 at 7:28 am
Freddie-304292 (4/24/2012)
... the drug laws are terrible, causing way more misery then the drugs themselves
Please don't propagate this fallacy. Try talking to anyone who works with, or who has suffered the long term psychological effects of even short term use of supposedly harmless drugs. You really don't want to expose anyone to the life long effect they have, or the difficult, often traumatic path the users face to become the people they once were. Sure it's easier for law enforcement to make them legal, but that policy will leave an even bigger trail of damaged people in its wake.
April 24, 2012 at 7:34 am
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)
Freddie-304292 (4/24/2012)
... the drug laws are terrible, causing way more misery then the drugs themselves... Sure it's easier for law enforcement to make them legal, but that policy will leave an even bigger trail of damaged people in its wake.
As if putting people in prison does not damage people and lives.
Drugs are not harmless, but crimalization is even worse.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
April 24, 2012 at 7:36 am
david.wright-948385 (4/24/2012)
Freddie-304292 (4/24/2012)
... the drug laws are terrible, causing way more misery then the drugs themselvesPlease don't propagate this fallacy. Try talking to anyone who works with, or who has suffered the long term psychological effects of even short term use of supposedly harmless drugs. You really don't want to expose anyone to the life long effect they have, or the difficult, often traumatic path the users face to become the people they once were. Sure it's easier for law enforcement to make them legal, but that policy will leave an even bigger trail of damaged people in its wake.
I agree, drug use up close and personal is not a pretty sight, and legalizing it or making it even easier to get, is not going to make that any better. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 200 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply