April 23, 2012 at 9:35 am
Yes, a disturbing trend in a number of ways ... enough said.
However I am not affected since my only online 'presence' is SSC, almost daily, and a G-mail account that I check every month or so.
Apologies in advance for the sectarian religious anecdote that follows ...
The best advice one can offer is:
Don't post anything online that you would not be able to state in public in church.
(yes, the internet is 'forever' !!!)
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
April 23, 2012 at 9:41 am
I think it's a mistake to consider this an issue about what's safe to post online and what's not. The employer is asking for the keys to something that is locked.
I think this belongs in the same category as if the prospective employer wanted to sleep with your wife before they would give you a job.
April 23, 2012 at 9:46 am
April 23, 2012 at 9:47 am
rudy - Doctor "X" (4/23/2012)
Yes, a disturbing trend in a number of ways ... enough said.However I am not affected since my only online 'presence' is SSC, almost daily, and a G-mail account that I check every month or so.
Apologies in advance for the sectarian religious anecdote that follows ...
The best advice one can offer is:
Don't post anything online that you would not be able to state in public in church.
(yes, the internet is 'forever' !!!)
Yes, because freedom of speech should never, ever override the possibility of losing an employment opportunty! Of course! Money is vastly more important than freedom! Everyone knows that! After all, more people will put their life on the line for a paycheck than for their rights and freedoms. I'm sure of it.
Or is my sarcasm getting too heavy on that?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
April 23, 2012 at 9:48 am
dbrumley (4/23/2012)...this belongs in the same category as if the prospective employer wanted to sleep with your wife before they would give you a job.
Hey perhaps they should if you're not on Facebook :w00t:
April 23, 2012 at 9:50 am
TravisDBA (4/23/2012)
I undertand your feelings, Steve. However, one question does come to mind. Why would you post "private" information on the Internet in the first place? Particularly, on a "security hole" like Facebook?:-D
It's semi-private. It's there to share with friends, and while I know some of it goes out wider, I keep that in mind when I'm posting. My FB account is limited to friends and family, no business people if they're not friends. I have drawn a separation line for the simple reason that I don't want to mix certain things (politics, etc) in an open, general space.
Private is a poor choice of words. It's a set of things I want to share with people, but not everyone. To me, it's like having a conversation in a public park with friends. Someone might overhear me, but in general, most of what I say is limited to those to whom I am saying it.
April 23, 2012 at 9:51 am
jay-h (4/23/2012)
A big problem with Facebook, Google etc is they insist on your 'true name' rather than nickname or pseudonym.
Not sure you need a "real name". You do need to supply an email, but there are lots of things you don't need to share on there, including your real information. AFAIK, most of it isn't validated outside of an email.
April 23, 2012 at 9:57 am
As data professionals, I would think that every last one of us would refuse to give away our login information to ANY social networking site. We are entrusted with sensitive data at any company we work for, and if we are willing to give up credentials to our Facebook/LinkedIn/Twitter/Google+/whatever-the-latest-site-is accounts, what's to say we wouldn't be just as cavalier with the credentials for our employer's servers? And I would certainly hope that any employer would see that. (If they don't, we definitely need to point it out to them.)
To be honest, if any employer requires that information from me, that's a good sign that I need to get myself out and find somewhere to work that has more integrity.
Jennifer Levy (@iffermonster)
April 23, 2012 at 9:57 am
terrance.steadman (4/23/2012)
The other option of just signing a non-defamation contract with the company can also bring about problems.
Interesting idea. I think there's some merit here. Ranting on FB (or Twitter, etc) is different than complaining to your neighbor over the fence or ranting in a bar. Your employer has some expectation that you'll represent them appropriately, though I'm not sure what that is.
April 23, 2012 at 10:01 am
terrance.steadman (4/23/2012)
Greetings jfogel,Sometimes what is considered "negative" and what is "sanitized" is completly a matter of opinion. That is the point I was trying to make about the reason for leaving part. If what you say can be possible be interpreted as being either negative or false then that could give them grounds for their action. I am certain that others here either know of, or have experienced, how others can take what they say and twist it around so much that it doesn't even come close to what they had meant.
As for just saying that you would take them to court too, that is also a hard choice for some to make. What you do can also affect your family and friends. Hiring a good lawyer also takes a lot of time, effort, possibly money, and a ton of luck that you might not have. There is also the concern that if a judiciary committee does not follow their own rules and supports the aggressor, will you continue to fight? Would it be worth the potential cost and loss to continue? If you truly have nothing to lose, then sure go for the fight, but many do have more to lose and may find that trying to do battle would cost more than what they would win in the end. This cost is not just monetary either. There is the cost to health, life, happiness for you, your immediate family and friends. The cost of stress and worries too. Just because you are right, does not mean that you will win.
The easiest way I can put that is to consider a car accident involving a car and a motorcycle. It doesn't matter if the motorcycle rider was right or wrong - they still lose.
If only more people on motorcycles and especially pedestrians would remember your last sentence they would be better off. I remind people of this fact as well.
I'm smart enough to pick my battles whenever possible. Those that know me tend to be aware that I'm not the sort of person that just lets things happen to me and then does nothing about it and I certainly am proactive in avoiding negative actions as the become apparent. I'm not trying to be boastful in anyway, it is just how I am.
What you wrote is certainly true about litigation but at some point a person has to stop being afraid. I've had to sue a business before and even though it was small claims it was very frustrating. I was in the right and they settled to my satisfaction but I was ready to go all the way with it. To me, it is how you deal with these matters that determines how it will affect your life. I guess it comes down to choices and I choose not to be run over if there is something I can do about it. I know we can't win them all as the saying goes but that is no reason to lay down and simply take whatever someone else gives you.
Cheers
April 23, 2012 at 10:01 am
I wouldn't log in for them.
Let's say that they are honest enough to not have Fiddler (or equivalent) running on the machine in the background (which would capture your password in plain text), there is still another reason.
I value friends based on whether they know how to be a friend, and not on their religious/political/etc views.
So I have a friend that believes in space aliens, big foot, and the lock ness monster.
I have another that's very active at the state level as a Democrat.
I have another that's very active regionally as a Replublican.
I even have one that thinks prostitution is empowering to women because they get to set the price of their bodies (no, it's a female that thinks that).
If an employer believes that "you are who you hang out with" they could easily find something 'negative' before they even get to Justine (#4).
Now, if I were despirate for a job I have another FB account under my name which doesn't have any friends and I could show them that one. (It was created to play games that integrate with FB, when it posts to my profile for me none of my friends are bothered with an update)
April 23, 2012 at 10:08 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/23/2012)
jay-h (4/23/2012)
A big problem with Facebook, Google etc is they insist on your 'true name' rather than nickname or pseudonym.Not sure you need a "real name". You do need to supply an email, but there are lots of things you don't need to share on there, including your real information. AFAIK, most of it isn't validated outside of an email.
...
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
April 23, 2012 at 10:10 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (4/23/2012)
terrance.steadman (4/23/2012)
The other option of just signing a non-defamation contract with the company can also bring about problems.
Interesting idea. I think there's some merit here. Ranting on FB (or Twitter, etc) is different than complaining to your neighbor over the fence or ranting in a bar. Your employer has some expectation that you'll represent them appropriately, though I'm not sure what that is.
And is it defamation if it's true? Whining about work is an important part of socialising and letting off steam, and that should include on private social networks.
There was one girl over here daft enough to friend her boss, and she complained she was bored at work on FB, and got fired. Now, friending your boss is daft, but firing someone for being bored FFS. When did bosses have the rights to insist, not only that we meet their minimum standards, but that we enjoy doing it.
I find this wanting to access people's FB accounts very disturbing in that it is an indication that employers feel they have the right to control your life outside of the hours that you have sold them, and that to me is not right. Not right at all.
April 23, 2012 at 10:14 am
GSquared (4/23/2012)
rudy - Doctor "X" (4/23/2012)
Yes, a disturbing trend in a number of ways ... enough said.However I am not affected since my only online 'presence' is SSC, almost daily, and a G-mail account that I check every month or so.
Apologies in advance for the sectarian religious anecdote that follows ...
The best advice one can offer is:
Don't post anything online that you would not be able to state in public in church.
(yes, the internet is 'forever' !!!)
Yes, because freedom of speech should never, ever override the possibility of losing an employment opportunty! Of course! Money is vastly more important than freedom! Everyone knows that! After all, more people will put their life on the line for a paycheck than for their rights and freedoms. I'm sure of it.
Or is my sarcasm getting too heavy on that?
I agree and of course, it is easy to claim we will fight to the death here on a Forum. At times the principle is the money and sometimes the principle is just that, the principle. If a person will put aside all principles for money then they never really had any to begin with. We are all big boys and girls here and we know that sometimes the right thing to do is not always the easiest thing to do.
Cheers
April 23, 2012 at 10:24 am
jfogel (4/23/2012)
GSquared (4/23/2012)
rudy - Doctor "X" (4/23/2012)
Yes, a disturbing trend in a number of ways ... enough said.However I am not affected since my only online 'presence' is SSC, almost daily, and a G-mail account that I check every month or so.
Apologies in advance for the sectarian religious anecdote that follows ...
The best advice one can offer is:
Don't post anything online that you would not be able to state in public in church.
(yes, the internet is 'forever' !!!)
Yes, because freedom of speech should never, ever override the possibility of losing an employment opportunty! Of course! Money is vastly more important than freedom! Everyone knows that! After all, more people will put their life on the line for a paycheck than for their rights and freedoms. I'm sure of it.
Or is my sarcasm getting too heavy on that?
I agree and of course, it is easy to claim we will fight to the death here on a Forum. At times the principle is the money and sometimes the principle is just that, the principle. If a person will put aside all principles for money then they never really had any to begin with. We are all big boys and girls here and we know that sometimes the right thing to do is not always the easiest thing to do.
Our society is designed to keep people in perpetual debt, to keep people living paycheck-to-paycheck at best, to keep as many people as possible dependent on government largess (they call it "entitlement programs" and "graduated income tax" these days - it used to be more honestly named "nobless oblige"), and all of that is backed up by vast amounts of law backed by overwhelming firepower. Of course people have to compromise their freedom and their principles on a routine basis. My only point on that is, I do have to compromise, but I don't have to stop fighting or start liking it.
Liking the government is just a socially acceptable form of Stockholm Syndrome.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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