March 17, 2015 at 12:00 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Small Experiments in Data
March 17, 2015 at 12:50 am
Part of me believes that in this century we may move to a model where ownership of data is considered "so 20th century", however, where value can be found so can ownership. Even bearing that in mind, I wholeheartedly agree that much community and citizen value can be garnered from public data repositories. They will be all the better for supporting common access platforms be it via web sites, SDKs, apps or any other means, such as data broadcasting.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 17, 2015 at 6:53 am
Gary Varga (3/17/2015)
Part of me believes that in this century we may move to a model where ownership of data is considered "so 20th century", however, where value can be found so can ownership. Even bearing that in mind, I wholeheartedly agree that much community and citizen value can be garnered from public data repositories. They will be all the better for supporting common access platforms be it via web sites, SDKs, apps or any other means, such as data broadcasting.
I think you are right on with the 20th century remark.
March 17, 2015 at 7:54 am
Gary Varga (3/17/2015)
Part of me believes that in this century we may move to a model where ownership of data is considered "so 20th century", however, where value can be found so can ownership. Even bearing that in mind, I wholeheartedly agree that much community and citizen value can be garnered from public data repositories. They will be all the better for supporting common access platforms be it via web sites, SDKs, apps or any other means, such as data broadcasting.
Let's clarify what we mean by "ownership of data"?
There is public data, as in a public park, and then there is private data, as in your home or proprietary to an organization or business. To say that all data (other than personal information) should be public, or to say that users who contribute to an organizational database are by default part owners of that database, this sounds almost Marxist.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 17, 2015 at 8:56 am
In reading the linked article about what Amsterdam is trying, I found this paragraph:"Traffic density is a major problem for the small IJburg community, so ASC is also partnering with TrafficLink to create the Digital Road Authority, an automated system that can tell residents what the traffic will be like at any point throughout the day. By using traffic data from private and public organizations, the application can automatically tell drivers the quickest route to whatever’s on their mobile calendar. It even takes green lights into consideration, and the Digital Road Authority will soon be able to program lights to stay green for a specific amount of time during high-traffic times."
If I am reading this right, it is mining personal phone's calendars for destinations and creating traffic routing suggestions. This is quite a step what is considered public data from in the US tracking your phones movement down the highway to give travel times. I don't think I want my calendar appointments considered public data. Of course I am sure all personal information is removed and whose appointment is not track to preserve personal privacy.
Is convenience and being a 'Smart' city worth the lack of privacy?
March 17, 2015 at 9:14 am
brannanliz (3/17/2015)
In reading the linked article about what Amsterdam is trying, I found this paragraph:"Traffic density is a major problem for the small IJburg community, so ASC is also partnering with TrafficLink to create the Digital Road Authority, an automated system that can tell residents what the traffic will be like at any point throughout the day. By using traffic data from private and public organizations, the application can automatically tell drivers the quickest route to whatever’s on their mobile calendar. It even takes green lights into consideration, and the Digital Road Authority will soon be able to program lights to stay green for a specific amount of time during high-traffic times."If I am reading this right, it is mining personal phone's calendars for destinations and creating traffic routing suggestions. This is quite a step what is considered public data from in the US tracking your phones movement down the highway to give travel times. I don't think I want my calendar appointments considered public data. Of course I am sure all personal information is removed and whose appointment is not track to preserve personal privacy.
Is convenience and being a 'Smart' city worth the lack of privacy?
Sounds kinda like the Inrix app on my iPhone, only better. Since I don't travel around for meetings and such as part of my job, although I think this is cool and interesting, it has zero application for me.
You can't open all city data records. There are billing information, business permit applications, construction applications, personnel records with SSNs and disability/medical information: there's a lot of strategic and sensitive information there. Do you want anyone to get exact GIS specifications as to where the main high-pressure gas lines of the city run? Do you want your 14 y/o son's shoplifting arrest record and ADHD medication to be public knowledge? Or the information of the investigation into embezzlement in your company made public?
I've spent 14 years in city government and five years or so at the state level. Yes, I think a lot of information could be opened up. But it has to be carefully considered or you could have a lot of trouble.
I think this could also be a great opportunity for programmers-in-training. So many times we hear that people can't get jobs because they don't have any experience. Well, here's a chance to get the experience. Work with a well-known API, develop an interesting app or do some cool data analysis and you now have something in your portfolio that you can show off.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
March 17, 2015 at 9:42 am
brannanliz (3/17/2015)
In reading the linked article about what Amsterdam is trying, I found this paragraph:"Traffic density is a major problem for the small IJburg community, so ASC is also partnering with TrafficLink to create the Digital Road Authority, an automated system that can tell residents what the traffic will be like at any point throughout the day. By using traffic data from private and public organizations, the application can automatically tell drivers the quickest route to whatever’s on their mobile calendar. It even takes green lights into consideration, and the Digital Road Authority will soon be able to program lights to stay green for a specific amount of time during high-traffic times."
If everyone's application tells them to avoid a route because it's predicted to be busy, then that route will actually be traffic free and they'll have been given a poor choice of new route surely? :hehe:
March 17, 2015 at 9:45 am
Gary Varga (3/17/2015)
Part of me believes that in this century we may move to a model where ownership of data is considered "so 20th century"
I'd tend to disagree, I think retaining ownership of data is becoming more important all the time what with fraudsters, card cloning, identity theft, personal photo's being published or re-used for commercial purposes without permission etc. All these activities seem to be on the rise...
March 17, 2015 at 11:27 am
Here in the central U.S. we are going through an interesting time with public data vs private data. But this data is not in a computer system per se.
We have had these devices called "red light" cameras. I know that they have been used in parts of Europe but for those who don't know these are cameras at traffic intersections and are triggered by a vehicle entering the intersection when the light in that direction is red. It captures not only the vehicle but a look at the face of the driver. The city was simply mailing traffic tickets to the registered mailing address associated with the license plate. That should be OK. Right?
Turns out NO! A traffic violation is a misdemeanor (minor crime). A charge like that has to be brought either by an officer or citizen. But that individual must have witnessed the violation. Since the violation could not be prosecuted under that circumstance folks were beating the tickets left and right. The city took the cameras out. Yet under the law there is no expectation of privacy of you driving down the public street, even in your private car.
So is the position, direction, and speed data of an individual vehicle on a public road private data or public data?
ATBCharles Kincaid
March 17, 2015 at 11:49 am
Charles Kincaid (3/17/2015)
...A traffic violation is a misdemeanor (minor crime). A charge like that has to be brought either by an officer or citizen. But that individual must have witnessed the violation.
...
It seems we need to better define what it means to "witness" a crime. For example, if a city clerk manually reviewed each photo of a traffic offender, noting the car's tag number, then she could be considered a witness.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 17, 2015 at 12:13 pm
Eric while that seems perfectly reasonable to me I have been told differently. I am not a lawyer what I have heard is that this is so ingrained in the law that it is going to take quite a bit of legislation to get that in place.
On the other hand our city has been using crime statistics to position police forces proactively. This has been so successful that other cities are looking at what we are doing.
What was that old curse? "May you live in interesting times." Ah, yes. These are they.
ATBCharles Kincaid
March 17, 2015 at 12:29 pm
Eric M Russell (3/17/2015)
It seems we need to better define what it means to "witness" a crime. For example, if a city clerk manually reviewed each photo of a traffic offender, noting the car's tag number, then she could be considered a witness.
Do you ever wonder if lawyers sit around the bar just thinking up more and more ridiculous ways to bilk us out of monies that should go towards more valuable things? After 17 court cases and numerous legal appeals we see the Supreme Court ruling that to "witness" is to ... unless at the time ... and cannot be construed to mean... depending on the ... and in no manor is to be considered or meant to ...
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
March 17, 2015 at 1:00 pm
Miles Neale (3/17/2015)
Eric M Russell (3/17/2015)
It seems we need to better define what it means to "witness" a crime. For example, if a city clerk manually reviewed each photo of a traffic offender, noting the car's tag number, then she could be considered a witness.Do you ever wonder if lawyers sit around the bar just thinking up more and more ridiculous ways to bilk us out of monies that should go towards more valuable things? After 17 court cases and numerous legal appeals we see the Supreme Court ruling that to "witness" is to ... unless at the time ... and cannot be construed to mean... depending on the ... and in no manor is to be considered or meant to ...
In an age of digital signatures, sexting, remoting into the office, and telephonic appearance in court, it doesn't sound like a stretch to say that someone can witness a crime digitally after the fact.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 17, 2015 at 1:58 pm
This a difference between misdemeanors and felonies. Surveillance footage can be used against someone breaking into a building but not used if someone is urinating on the building. That is how I understand it. I think we have gone down a rabbit hole here.
ATBCharles Kincaid
March 17, 2015 at 2:09 pm
Eric M Russell (3/17/2015)
Miles Neale (3/17/2015)
Eric M Russell (3/17/2015)
It seems we need to better define what it means to "witness" a crime. For example, if a city clerk manually reviewed each photo of a traffic offender, noting the car's tag number, then she could be considered a witness.Do you ever wonder if lawyers sit around the bar just thinking up more and more ridiculous ways to bilk us out of monies that should go towards more valuable things? After 17 court cases and numerous legal appeals we see the Supreme Court ruling that to "witness" is to ... unless at the time ... and cannot be construed to mean... depending on the ... and in no manor is to be considered or meant to ...
In an age of digital signatures, sexting, remoting into the office, and telephonic appearance in court, it doesn't sound like a stretch to say that someone can witness a crime digitally after the fact.
I agree, however the lawyer would say that there is no proof that the digital representation has not been altered or completely fabricated with not a shred of truth to it.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
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