April 29, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Should I Buy a Kindle?
April 29, 2008 at 10:15 pm
The Kindle ROI is only going to come from convenience and portability. It's not going to come from book savings.
Computer books tend to be either obsoleted or replaced by newer editions - typically with software you get an upgrade plan and always have the latest version - will you get this with the Kindle? They are also typically loaned around the office or to colleagues, you can't do that with a Kindle.
Non-computer books are cheaper to get either new or second-hand on Amazon or ebay/half.com and then simply re-sell.
You will typically recoup the difference in price with Kindle version on your resale if you decide to buy new.
The Kindle has some interesting other features like RSS subscriptions and newspaper subscriptions, etc, and while the Kindle is nice, I have no way to use my Books24x7 or Safari bookshelves (free services with my ACM membership) on it, and many of the best SQL Server or platform-agnostic SQL books are not available for the Kindle.
The Kindle is a great device, but it is not economically viable alternative to books - it's an alternative to a heavy satchel, and the value of that varies by the beast of burden. I have not yet found it worth giving it a try just for that.
April 29, 2008 at 10:55 pm
The Kindle has never struck me as a well designed or even a remotely good-looking machine, so I would never buy one myself.
That said, I've been reading eBooks for years on my PDAs. First it was the Palm devices, then later the HP iPaq's. eReader.com has tens of thousands of books available for reading, however, not too many are technical in nature. Technical books are often best suited to the paper medium as they can be shared and easily referenced. Sharing is technically possible with eBooks, but I wouldn't trust people around the office to use my credit card number 😉
After 5+ years of reading eBooks, I've found that they work great for fiction and scientific materials, but are terribly lacking for quick reference materials. Rather than spend the money on a Kindle, perhaps investing in a full-fledged PDA would be more to your liking. Also, if you have a cell phone that runs either PalmOS, Windows Mobile or SymbianOS, you can get eReader software that will let you read on the smaller screens.
April 29, 2008 at 11:47 pm
I've read electronic books for years, I own > 1500. I used to read on my various PDA's - portability was one of the reasons.
For me economics was most certainly part of the reason. Paperbacks here in Australia start at about US$17 and up, hardcovers are about $30-45 and up. Technical books are worse. The difference was even higher until the US$ tanked recently. To me, the ROI was met in a very few books. Also, I can buy a book from the the US and start reading it inside a minute - ordering from here can take months, and the freight kills any price advantage (no free shipping overseas).
I recently bought a Cybook - same screen as the Kindle, looks prettier, but no keyboard or wireless access. The wireless wouldn't work here anyway. Also reads more formats including pdf (though not the Kindle DRM format). It's bigger than a PDA, and I thought I wouldn't use it as much. However, the difference in screen quality is so dramatic I ended up carrying it everywhere, and my PDA gets recharged much less often now. It fits OK in a large pants pocket, or jacket pocket. The battery lasts for a long time (the screen takes no power except when refreshing).
One of the main reasons I got the Cybook was a PDA really sucks in strong light/sunlight. The Cybook, on the other hand, only improves as the lighting goes up. Not so good for reading in bed, so I have a clip-on light (you can't backlight e-ink - it's opaque). The much improved battery life and larger screen is a bonus.
Now that I've had it for a while though, I'm not going back. I think it is actually an improved reading experience over reading a paper book, which I've never been able to say about a PDA. There are still some books where paper is best (lots of illustrations or photos mainly) but for your average text only book, it rocks.
If you do get a Kindle, note it will read Mobipocket format books as long as they don't have DRM. If they do, it must be the Kindle-specific DRM. You can download Mobipocket Creator, and turn a number of other (no-DRM) formats into Mobipocket books. You can then load these straight to your Kindle via USB, or pay Amazon to send them by wireless.
April 29, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I wish all books came on a DVD... easy to search, easy to carry. Of course, a couple/three 1,400 page books make a pretty good anti-terrorist weapon on a plane... almost as effective as a Wrist Rocket and pork chops 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 30, 2008 at 1:01 am
As of now E-books aren't that interesting to me.
I read enough off a screen, so as long as a book is more easy on the eyes, I won't be going down the E-book road 🙂
Interesting thought though, having all sorts of books everywhere.
April 30, 2008 at 1:59 am
I'd echo what ISM's said; reading from books is, for me, far easier on the eyes than reading from screen (and that's despite my having several laptops at my disposal, each with decent size/resolution screens and often configured to output to multiple displays).
I'd also be interested to know how much energy is consumed per consumer for an e-book to be produced, distributed, stored and displayed for reading, for the useful lifetime of that particular book. And that compared with the similar calculation for a paper copy. Given I don't buy books I'll only read once, I can't help but feel the traditional paper-based book may be, for the way I use it, rather greener. Of course, the point has already been made that technical books tend to be obsolete quite quickly, making the useful lifetime relatively short. However, I must admit that the technical books I tend to get are relatively "generic" ones (e.g. SQL language reference rather than T-SQL language reference as implemented in MS SQL Server v XXXX), meaning they're as useful as possible over the longest period possible.
Perhaps more relevant, though, is that if I have enough spare time available to sit down with a book (one of my luxuries in life, I'll admit), the last thing I'm likely to reach for is something work-related. Give me a good work of fiction from a skillful author any day.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
April 30, 2008 at 2:34 am
Ism & majorbloodnock,
If you haven't tried an e-ink screen, there is no way you can compare it properly. It is nothing at all like reading off any other type of screen. Looking at photo's of it online just mean you're now looking it on a screen, which doesn't help at all. They don't call it electronic paper for nothing. I find it as easy on the eyes as paper, sometimes better (depending on the paper/ink etc).
The amount of energy for an e-book to be:
Created and stored - basically none that's not already used. A book will already be in an ebook format of some kind before the publishers get it, and certainly before the printers do.
Distributed: lots less than paper book, for sure. What's the energy cost of a 200k download? Compared to shipping me a paper book halfway round the world?
Displayed: that's the interesting one. If I read it on my PDA or phone, I already have one of those. Display cost in power for my Cybook, about 20-30 minutes charge on a USB cable for a big book. (3 hours will completely recharge it, and it lasts for quite a few books). Energy to make the Cybook itself? I don't know. But spread over the hundreds of books I've already read on it, I suspect it's paying itself back.
Oh, and good fiction is one of the easiest things to get as an ebook. It's the work related ones that are hard.
April 30, 2008 at 3:15 am
I know what you mean, SLHope, but it's not the appearance of the screen that's the issue for me. There's been quite a bit of research into all the extra peripheral reading one does as well as taking in the sentence you're concentrating on, and my mind has had mumble-mumblety years of training to do what it does based on the format of a book. Flicking backwards and forwards on a normal PC screen is plain awkward. Since a Kindle is designed so that 1 screen = 1 book page, it's easier, and the controls are certainly well thought out, but for a veteran bookworm it still requires a bit of retraining your body. No doubt if I'd started reading on a Kindle, I'd have similar complaints about paper-based novels.
As far as energy expenditure is concerned, you're probably right. However, I've hundreds of novels, mostly secondhand, that are decades old and that I've read dozens of times. Producing and distributing one of those books was almost certainly costlier in energy than an e-book, but has consumed literally none since then. My kids' books give an even more stark contrast, since they get exponentially more outings. How many Kindle recharges would it take for "The Badger's Bath" to be read at bedtime once a week for four years on the trot? Rhetorical question (because I don't know the answer), and I'm not saying you're wrong, but there's no getting away from the fact that a paper book is a one-off expenditure whilst the Kindle is an ongoing one, and there's got to be a cross-over point somewhere.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
April 30, 2008 at 3:18 am
slhope (4/30/2008)
Ism & majorbloodnock,If you haven't tried an e-ink screen, there is no way you can compare it properly. It is nothing at all like reading off any other type of screen. Looking at photo's of it online just mean you're now looking it on a screen, which doesn't help at all. They don't call it electronic paper for nothing. I find it as easy on the eyes as paper, sometimes better (depending on the paper/ink etc).
Okay - I didn't know that. I guess I was prejudicial based on outdated knowledge.
Now I want to try an e-ink screen! 🙂
April 30, 2008 at 4:58 am
Perhaps I'm just old. But I don't want to read a book on a PDA/Kindle/iPAC. I do enough reading on electric (electronic) screens for work. When I have the opportunity to read something for pleasure, I sure do not want it to remind me of work. I've invested a considerable (for me) amount of money purchasing hardcover books. And I want nothing more than to sit in my comfy chair with a good beer, quiet, and an interesting book. This almost never happens.
Although, when I go on vacation, I bring along a number of books. There is no phone there, no cell reception, no TV, the radio barely receives 1 station. I just park my fat *** in a chair, dig my toes in the sand, partake in a good beer, perhaps a cigar, and read something. I can think of nothing quite so relaxing. I don't want the hassles of my connected worklife interfering with this idyllic period.
I guess this is the longwinded way of saying, there's something simplistic about an "old fashioned" book that an eBook just won't replace.
Perhaps in another life.
Honor Super Omnia-
Jason Miller
April 30, 2008 at 5:44 am
Based on my own use of ebooks, the Kindle isn't there yet. I use e-library books. I have a card from the New York Public Library, which has almost 10,000 books in adobe eBook format. Many of these are also in Mobipocket format. The NYPL lets you "borrow" ebooks for 30 days, and you can check out twelve at a time.
My local library, the Queensborough PL, has 750 ebooks available for loan. There you can check out 50 at a time, but they're only good for a week.
In addition, it is very simple to import books no longer under copyright -- for example from gutenberg.org -- into Mobipocket format.
I'll wait for Kindle to extend its functionality to these two areas before I buy one.
April 30, 2008 at 6:48 am
Erik Hunter (4/30/2008)
Based on my own use of ebooks, the Kindle isn't there yet. I use e-library books. I have a card from the New York Public Library, which has almost 10,000 books in adobe eBook format. Many of these are also in Mobipocket format. The NYPL lets you "borrow" ebooks for 30 days, and you can check out twelve at a time.
This is definitely the way to go, imho. As more and more books are created in electronic format, the libraries should be becoming much more up to date, as it is easier for them to store/manage their stockpile, and cheaper to purchase (i'm assuming, no idea if libraries get wholesale deals). Then, all those books that people read once will not just be sitting in an attic, or a box, or molding in the basement, but circulated through the library system, or reposing neatly in electronic storage.
I am constantly criticized by my wife regarding how fast I read through books, because I buy new ones more often than she would like. Even though I re-read the ones I have, I think an e-reader will help me avoid more than a few arguments for the rest of my life.
My only question to date has been where to read them, on my PDA, buy an iPhone, on the laptop, etc. Now that the Kindle and the other options mentioned by previous posters exist, I think that is a much more viable option, even as a separate device.
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April 30, 2008 at 6:59 am
I have owned a Kindle since September last. Yes, I think it was WAY too expensive. It should be priced at half of what it is. But what the hell, Happy Birthday to Me.
The e-Ink is fantastically easy to read, at least as easy as a paperback. The reason the battery lasts so long is there is no back-light (a few thousand pages at least). That's also a big part of why it doesn't strain your eyes.
Economically, the Kindle books at Amazon are priced $2-4US below the same paper book at Amazon. Unless I can get free shipping or (gasp!) drive to a local bookstore, it's actually a pretty good savings. Also, check out Project Gutenberg, most of the classics are there and they're free.
Kindle is incredibly convenient. It has a cellular connection always available, so you can get a book pretty much whenever you want. I've loaded up my Kindle with a few books and discovered that I didn't feel like reading any of those. Poof, crappy spy novel coming up. Amazon says that it takes about a minute to download a book. That's an vast overstatement.
The other thing I use it for is that I can email it Word doc. So when the boss says, "Can you review that 50-page vendor proposal before they come in tomorrow?", I just email it to my Kindle and read it on the way home.
Don't discount the value of their "samples" either. You can download the first 50 or 100 pages of any book for free. Start to read it and if you're hooked, just click, "buy this book"
It's quite terrible for technical books for all the reasons other posters mentioned. You can't loan them out, have 2 of them open on your desk, etc. Formatted code isn't always the best either. So I really only use the Kindle for recreational reading.
So I like it a lot. It's not perfect, but it's really good at what it does.
April 30, 2008 at 7:21 am
I agree with Mark Gendein. I've had my Kindle since early December of last year and I love it. I still love paper books as well, but the kindle does have a few benefits that a lot of people overlook.
Large books - the kindle is very light and easy to hold, once you get used to it (a couple of reading sessions is all it takes). It is much easier to sit in a chair and read a Kindle than hold up some huge, heavy book.
The Kindle is compatible with mobiopocket format books - you don't have to buy from the Amazon store if you don't want to.
You can email documents to Amazon and have them converted and sent wirelessly to your Kindle for 10 cents. You can have the converted docs sent back to you via email for free.
The broswer on the Kindle is pretty primitive, but think about it. You have a free wireless browser. No monthly charges. For any textual website it works just fine. People have documented how to get google maps (and the My Location feature) on the Kindle, among other useful tricks.
The Kindle looks bad in pictures, but it really isn't that bad in person - it's merel functional without being elegant or anything. The Sony PRS500/505 look much better, but the Kindle does have the advantagte of the much larger Amazon library and the free wireless connection.
And if you really want more information about various ebook readers, check out http://www.mobileread.com.
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