September 6, 2012 at 2:37 pm
I think it is great to bring this to the attention of the community. This behavior cannot be tolerated.
Better than talking about it, I would love to see action. If you see this happening - say something. Don't stand idly by. There are some cases where you may not need to intervene. Such times would be if the victim has handled the situation. Even so, say something appropriate to the victim to support him/her.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
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September 6, 2012 at 3:17 pm
My kids have reached the age where I can go out for a night on the town every now and again and I've found it a culture shock.
The behaviour of both sexes is absolutely unbelievable. The objective of a night out appears to be to drink until you fall unconcious and not to socialise.
I saw a woman of indeterminate age not just tipsy or drunk but absolutely paralytic. I thought she'd lost her clothing but there were quite a few staggering around in a similar state of undress. Basically what is acceptable atire for a night on the town in 2012 is something you'd expect to see at the rough end of the prostitute spectrum from the 1990s.
For the sake of balance I have to say that I don't remember it acceptable for blokes to piss in the street either or shake the drip off while turning to face the crowd.
Some towns in England actually drop plastic hip height urinals in the street to stop random widdling.
My point is that neither sex seems to respect themselves, each other their surroundings or other people.
The behaviour described in Valerie's blog, I'm sorry to say, doesn't surprise me.
I don't know what is the root cause. Alcohol, pornography, drugs, political correctness, 'elf & safety, sex education, liberal attitudes.
What I do know is that if I had behaved in that manner and my parents found out about it I would have been thrashed and kicked out of the family home regardless of whether I was a teenager or in my 20s.
Martin Luther King said "The time is always right to do what is right" so I would urge anyone observing that behaviour at a conference not to stand idly by if only for their own self respect.
September 6, 2012 at 3:38 pm
SQLRNNR (9/6/2012)
I think it is great to bring this to the attention of the community. This behavior cannot be tolerated.Better than talking about it, I would love to see action. If you see this happening - say something. Don't stand idly by. There are some cases where you may not need to intervene. Such times would be if the victim has handled the situation. Even so, say something appropriate to the victim to support him/her.
Agreed. I wouldn't stop there though. Make sure it's escalated, so that the organizers are aware of the issue, and have a chance to deal with it appropriately. If it doesn't stop - boycott it, and let the organizers know that neither you nor anyone in your org will go (that goes for ALL genders). Zero tolerance is zero tolerance, period.
After all - if you KNOW there's likely to be an issue, and you still send someone, you are putting the organization at risk (your own AND the conference itself). It does noone any good to just shrug it off.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
September 7, 2012 at 7:25 am
By all the "zero tolerance" replies here I can successfully determine that many folks never bothered with the five seconds it took to google DEFCON 🙂
September 7, 2012 at 7:32 am
This has gone a little sideways, but in addition to blatant harassment, like licking someone's shoulder, I was hoping to drive home the point that any unwanted advances, especially repeated ones no matter how polite, aren't appropriate.
September 7, 2012 at 8:02 am
patrickmcginnis59 (9/7/2012)
By all the "zero tolerance" replies here I can successfully determine that many folks never bothered with the five seconds it took to google DEFCON 🙂
The fact that DefCon (yes I did in fact google it, so spare the snark please) doesn't handle the issue is unfortunate, but that has nothing to do with my use to "zero tolerance", nor does the fact that the community may have evolve somewhat over the years.
We (the community) set the tolerance level, not the other way around. If Dark Tangent's view of the world doesn't involve keeping the idiots in check, then perhaps it's time to create another version of that community that does.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
September 7, 2012 at 8:44 am
We (the community) set the tolerance level, not the other way around. If Dark Tangent's view of the world doesn't involve keeping the idiots in check, then perhaps it's time to create another version of that community that does.
This is an excellent idea, count me in! I think the replacement conference should be hosted at Disney World!
September 7, 2012 at 8:56 am
Martin Luther King said "The time is always right to do what is right" so I would urge anyone observing that behaviour at a conference not to stand idly by if only for their own self respect.
David,
By all means do so, if you believe that is the right thing to do at the time, then go for it. However, one word of caution to anyone approaching a situation where people are intoxicated and you are the interceder. "Do so at your own peril...". Police have had similar situations in the past and both parties (perpetrator and victim), and sometimes whole groups of intoxicated people, end up attacking them. In some cases, even killing them. So please everyone, be careful doing stuff like this. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
September 7, 2012 at 9:06 am
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
Martin Luther King said "The time is always right to do what is right" so I would urge anyone observing that behaviour at a conference not to stand idly by if only for their own self respect.
David,
By all means do so, if you believe that is the right thing to do at the time, then go for it. However, one word of caution to anyone approaching a situation where people are intoxicated and you are the interceder. "Do so at your own peril...". Police have had similar situations in the past and both parties (perpetrator and victim) end up attacking them. Be careful. 😀
Doing the right thing doesn't always mean directly interceding. It could mean contacting those with the authority to act, such as security personnel.
September 7, 2012 at 9:08 am
It has been my experience at events like this that if security personnel do not directly see it happen, or on closed circuit camera, then they do not act. They must see the behavior first. There's the rub. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
September 7, 2012 at 9:11 am
Lynn Pettis (9/7/2012)
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
Martin Luther King said "The time is always right to do what is right" so I would urge anyone observing that behaviour at a conference not to stand idly by if only for their own self respect.
David,
By all means do so, if you believe that is the right thing to do at the time, then go for it. However, one word of caution to anyone approaching a situation where people are intoxicated and you are the interceder. "Do so at your own peril...". Police have had similar situations in the past and both parties (perpetrator and victim) end up attacking them. Be careful. 😀
Doing the right thing doesn't always mean directly interceding. It could mean contacting those with the authority to act, such as security personnel.
The link for reporting bad behavior at DEFCON is on their website, near the skull and crossbones icon.
September 7, 2012 at 9:36 am
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
It has been my experience at events like this that if security personnel do not directly see it happen, or on closed circuit camera, then they do not act. They must see the behavior first. There's the rub. 😀
My experience is that if the police get a victim and an independent witness, that's sufficient grounds to at least take the complaint seriously. Therefore, you have a choice; either ignore the bad behaviour or do something about it. If you do something, you have various plans of attack (direct intervention, notifying security staff and taking it to the police are the ones that immediately spring to mind). If you've seen something you believe to be really wrong, are you going to allow yourself to be put off at the first hurdle? And how far does the sexual abuse need to go before you'll act irrespective?
The women we're talking about didn't ask to be harrassed, and if people take the attitude that "no-one's going to act, so why bother" then the women are not only being abused, they're alone and vulnerable through no fault of their own. How can that ever be right, and why would anyone ever ignore a plight like that?
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
September 7, 2012 at 10:31 am
majorbloodnock (9/7/2012)
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
It has been my experience at events like this that if security personnel do not directly see it happen, or on closed circuit camera, then they do not act. They must see the behavior first. There's the rub. 😀My experience is that if the police get a victim and an independent witness, that's sufficient grounds to at least take the complaint seriously. Therefore, you have a choice; either ignore the bad behaviour or do something about it. If you do something, you have various plans of attack (direct intervention, notifying security staff and taking it to the police are the ones that immediately spring to mind). If you've seen something you believe to be really wrong, are you going to allow yourself to be put off at the first hurdle? And how far does the sexual abuse need to go before you'll act irrespective?
The women we're talking about didn't ask to be harrassed, and if people take the attitude that "no-one's going to act, so why bother" then the women are not only being abused, they're alone and vulnerable through no fault of their own. How can that ever be right, and why would anyone ever ignore a plight like that?
Agreed, but please remember this isn't just about gender either. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a fact of life, most people (at least in my neighborhood) don't want to get involved. There are the way things should be, and then there are the way things are. People's today tend to watch out for #1 and don't intervene in other people's issues..a sign of the times maybe. If injustice in life upsets you, then you are probably going to go through life pretty disappointed all the time, so try not to let it steal your joy. Life is not fair...but what else is new?:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
September 7, 2012 at 10:42 am
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
majorbloodnock (9/7/2012)
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
It has been my experience at events like this that if security personnel do not directly see it happen, or on closed circuit camera, then they do not act. They must see the behavior first. There's the rub. 😀My experience is that if the police get a victim and an independent witness, that's sufficient grounds to at least take the complaint seriously. Therefore, you have a choice; either ignore the bad behaviour or do something about it. If you do something, you have various plans of attack (direct intervention, notifying security staff and taking it to the police are the ones that immediately spring to mind). If you've seen something you believe to be really wrong, are you going to allow yourself to be put off at the first hurdle? And how far does the sexual abuse need to go before you'll act irrespective?
The women we're talking about didn't ask to be harrassed, and if people take the attitude that "no-one's going to act, so why bother" then the women are not only being abused, they're alone and vulnerable through no fault of their own. How can that ever be right, and why would anyone ever ignore a plight like that?
Agreed, but please remember this isn't just about gender either. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a fact of life, most people (at least in my neighborhood) don't want to get involved. There are the way things should be, and then there are the way things are. People's today tend to watch out for #1 and don't intervene in other people's issues..a sign of the times maybe. If injustice in life upsets you, then you are probably going to go through life pretty disappointed all the time, so try not to let it steal your joy. Life is not fair...but what else is new?:-D
I'm glad our neighbors didn't (and don't) feel that way. We have always looked out for each other. That's what makes it a neighborhood, not just a place to live.
September 7, 2012 at 10:45 am
Lynn Pettis (9/7/2012)
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
majorbloodnock (9/7/2012)
TravisDBA (9/7/2012)
It has been my experience at events like this that if security personnel do not directly see it happen, or on closed circuit camera, then they do not act. They must see the behavior first. There's the rub. 😀My experience is that if the police get a victim and an independent witness, that's sufficient grounds to at least take the complaint seriously. Therefore, you have a choice; either ignore the bad behaviour or do something about it. If you do something, you have various plans of attack (direct intervention, notifying security staff and taking it to the police are the ones that immediately spring to mind). If you've seen something you believe to be really wrong, are you going to allow yourself to be put off at the first hurdle? And how far does the sexual abuse need to go before you'll act irrespective?
The women we're talking about didn't ask to be harrassed, and if people take the attitude that "no-one's going to act, so why bother" then the women are not only being abused, they're alone and vulnerable through no fault of their own. How can that ever be right, and why would anyone ever ignore a plight like that?
Agreed, but please remember this isn't just about gender either. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a fact of life, most people (at least in my neighborhood) don't want to get involved. There are the way things should be, and then there are the way things are. People's today tend to watch out for #1 and don't intervene in other people's issues..a sign of the times maybe. If injustice in life upsets you, then you are probably going to go through life pretty disappointed all the time, so try not to let it steal your joy. Life is not fair...but what else is new?:-D
I'm glad our neighbors didn't (and don't) feel that way. We have always looked out for each other. That's what makes it a neighborhood, not just a place to live.
Sounds like you got some good neighbors. I think that is a rare occurrence.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
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