December 9, 2015 at 10:31 am
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
I can't remember what the function was I was asked to write and then test, but it was something like writing a function that would approximate the value of pi and unit test it.
Heh.... I have that down pat. Ready?
SELECT PI();
To unit test it, I press the PI button on my calculator and save the data in a single element table. Every time I calculate the approximation using the above code, I check it against the known value in the table. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
December 10, 2015 at 9:02 am
Jeff Moden (12/9/2015)
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
I can't remember what the function was I was asked to write and then test, but it was something like writing a function that would approximate the value of pi and unit test it.Heh.... I have that down pat. Ready?
SELECT PI();To unit test it, I press the PI button on my calculator and save the data in a single element table. Every time I calculate the approximation using the above code, I check it against the known value in the table. 😀
HA! HA! HA! That's a good one, Jeff.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
December 10, 2015 at 2:09 pm
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
Good advise Eric, thanks.
In many cases the interviewer doesn't really know what they're asking about, and this would be the guys who asked a lot of syntax related questions without two way discussions. Ultimately these guys make their determination based on surface level things like confidence and appearance, so if you want the job, you might as well not break form, regardless of how you perceive the interview is going. However, that is probably more useful advice for entry level job seekers.
The real question is whether any of us here would even want the job once we determine the questions are practically irrelevant. There have been occasions where I've been fifteen minutes into an interview and arrived at the conclusion that they are wasting MY time. We can gauge the nature of the organization and job by the nature of the interview process. If you're a top-shelf professional looking for a top-shelf position, then you should be skeptical of anything less than a top-shelf interview process.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
December 10, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
Good advise Eric, thanks.In many cases the interviewer doesn't really know what they're asking about, and this would be the guys who asked a lot of syntax related questions without two way discussions. Ultimately these guys make their determination based on surface level things like confidence and appearance, so if you want the job, you might as well not break form, regardless of how you perceive the interview is going. However, that is probably more useful advice for entry level job seekers.
The real question is whether any of us here would even want the job once we determine the questions are practically irrelevant. There have been occasions where I've been fifteen minutes into an interview and arrived at the conclusion that they are wasting MY time. We can gauge the nature of the organization and job by the nature of the interview process. If you're a top-shelf professional looking for a top-shelf position, then you should be skeptical of anything less than a top-shelf interview process.
Chances are the first time you talk to someone as part of the interview process it won't be with a technical person and if it is it likely won't cover technical issues on the first conversation. Your first discussion should be a sanity check on everyone's part(the first part of our interview process at a company I used to work for was a basic math test it filtered out an amazing amount of people with college degrees applying for developer jobs who couldn't do basic arithmetic), if it gets past that you should eventually get to someone who will ask you in depth technical questions and be able to discuss them. If that never happens then you should probably consider whether that's a company you want to work for 😀
December 10, 2015 at 3:17 pm
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
Good advise Eric, thanks.In many cases the interviewer doesn't really know what they're asking about, and this would be the guys who asked a lot of syntax related questions without two way discussions. Ultimately these guys make their determination based on surface level things like confidence and appearance, so if you want the job, you might as well not break form, regardless of how you perceive the interview is going. However, that is probably more useful advice for entry level job seekers.
The real question is whether any of us here would even want the job once we determine the questions are practically irrelevant. There have been occasions where I've been fifteen minutes into an interview and arrived at the conclusion that they are wasting MY time. We can gauge the nature of the organization and job by the nature of the interview process. If you're a top-shelf professional looking for a top-shelf position, then you should be skeptical of anything less than a top-shelf interview process.
I have seen first hand the adding of significance to surface level things. In my case a wrinkled shirt and not so firm handshake 😀 but I wont go into that. In another instance I happened to correct one of the interviewers on a technical question (imagine that), but was passed up due to again a surface level judgment. Eye contact was very important to one of the interviewers. Its not like I was looking away and ignoring my subject. I do not want to make anyone uncomfortable with firm stares, some cultures may find that as impolite even.
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December 10, 2015 at 3:37 pm
MMartin1 (12/10/2015)
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
Good advise Eric, thanks.In many cases the interviewer doesn't really know what they're asking about, and this would be the guys who asked a lot of syntax related questions without two way discussions. Ultimately these guys make their determination based on surface level things like confidence and appearance, so if you want the job, you might as well not break form, regardless of how you perceive the interview is going. However, that is probably more useful advice for entry level job seekers.
The real question is whether any of us here would even want the job once we determine the questions are practically irrelevant. There have been occasions where I've been fifteen minutes into an interview and arrived at the conclusion that they are wasting MY time. We can gauge the nature of the organization and job by the nature of the interview process. If you're a top-shelf professional looking for a top-shelf position, then you should be skeptical of anything less than a top-shelf interview process.
I have seen first hand the adding of significance to surface level things. In my case a wrinkled shirt and not so firm handshake 😀 but I wont go into that. In another instance I happened to correct one of the interviewers on a technical question (imagine that), but was passed up due to again a surface level judgment. Eye contact was very important to one of the interviewers. Its not like I was looking away and ignoring my subject. I do not want to make anyone uncomfortable with firm stares, some cultures may find that as impolite even.
Wrinkled shirt, weak handshake, minimal eye contact... it sounds like the HR gate keeper was effectively weeding out all the Asperger types before they even reached the IT interview. Which is a shame since many of them are among the best programmers and database administrators.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
December 10, 2015 at 3:47 pm
What amazes me is how may times I would decide half way though an interview that I'm really not interested, spend the rest of the interview checking my watch and thinking about lunch, but then afterward I'd get a call back offering a 2nd interview (which I'd turn down). It's almost as if they interpret a total lack of interest for nonchalant confidence or something.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
December 10, 2015 at 4:08 pm
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
What amazes me is how may times I would decide half way though an interview that I'm really not interested, spend the rest of the interview checking my watch and thinking about lunch, but then afterward I'd get a call back offering a 2nd interview (which I'd turn down). It's almost as if they interpret a total lack of interest for nonchalant confidence or something.
Haha, sounds like something out of Office Space. There is a good tip for the next interview.
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December 10, 2015 at 5:18 pm
MMartin1 (12/10/2015)
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
What amazes me is how may times I would decide half way though an interview that I'm really not interested, spend the rest of the interview checking my watch and thinking about lunch, but then afterward I'd get a call back offering a 2nd interview (which I'd turn down). It's almost as if they interpret a total lack of interest for nonchalant confidence or something.Haha, sounds like something out of Office Space. There is a good tip for the next interview.
But like I said eatlier, it's symptomatic of an organization that doesn't get IT recruiting, perhaps not even IT in general, so it doesn't work if you're trying to land a worthwhile job.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
December 10, 2015 at 5:20 pm
LOL!!!! Well, no wonder I've been having such a rough go of it. Guess I gotta learn to program better, since I can't make the Aspergers go away... might just have to learn to be a better nerd!
December 10, 2015 at 7:23 pm
I have experienced that. Did an interview once over the phone that lasted 10 minutes or less. I was out of town, so was not really motivated to rush back if they were serious. Took the call as more of an information gathering call. Low and behold the recruiter called the next day and asked when I could start.
The irony was that I did the project, but the people were hard to work with. Maybe they had problems hiring people to work with them in the past, so they kept things short on purpose?
What kills me are interviewers who interview like they are police talking to a crime suspect. I just had an interview recently and this person wanted me to write some code for something he just thought of. I said I do not write code on the fly, but sit down and analyze the purpose of the code. He said then tell me what I wold do and I said that it looks like you are trying to parse a string. He said yes. I said that could be done many ways, but I am not going to write code at this time.
Some interviewers get caught up in minutia, and forget the bigger picture. If an interviewer needs to give a person a math quiz, then is that because they are hiring them to do write code to solve math problems. I developed database systems for accounting and finance departments for many years. When I started, I was so so at math, and was clueless about accounting rules. If I was grilled like I was an accountant when applying for the job, I would have never gotten the work. The interviewer was more interested in the bigger picture to design database applications. Everything else would be learned as needed. After a few years, I was asked to design a system to pay bonus to sales reps. After I took on the project I found flaws with the business logic and rules the finance people devised. I told them so and they agreed. The result saved the company money. So in a nut shell, just because you can do math, does not mean you have the ability to see the bigger picture. Sometimes it takes an outsider with a different skill set and background.
December 10, 2015 at 8:31 pm
Eric M Russell (12/2/2015)
lnardozi 61862 (12/2/2015)
Here is the problem in a nutshell - salary opacity and salary equality.Demigod of SQL = x$
Seat Filler = x$
Unfortunately, just as much money is allocated by management for the seat filler as for the demigod. Both are hired as cheaply as they can be got, leaving open the very real possibility that the seat filler (who happens to be good at negotiation) makes more than the demigod. Further, neither the demigod nor the seat filler know what each other makes, providing absolutely zero incentive for the seat filer to become a demigod.
Solution? Make all salary information public. When someone asks, "Why does so and so make so much", the answer will be, "Go look at their code and then you tell me."
Organizations should setup a system of metrics, terminate the seat fillers, and then maintain an IT department of somewhat fewer but more qualified staff. The seat filters will then be highly incentivized to grow up.
Unfortunately the people put in charge of setting up the metrics are usually the same ones who wouldn't know what makes a good IT employee form a bad one (usually HR). If you don't know the job or the skills it takes to hire someone quality what chance do you have to know what metrics to use to measure for quality....
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
December 11, 2015 at 8:36 am
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
MMartin1 (12/10/2015)
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
Good advise Eric, thanks.In many cases the interviewer doesn't really know what they're asking about, and this would be the guys who asked a lot of syntax related questions without two way discussions. Ultimately these guys make their determination based on surface level things like confidence and appearance, so if you want the job, you might as well not break form, regardless of how you perceive the interview is going. However, that is probably more useful advice for entry level job seekers.
The real question is whether any of us here would even want the job once we determine the questions are practically irrelevant. There have been occasions where I've been fifteen minutes into an interview and arrived at the conclusion that they are wasting MY time. We can gauge the nature of the organization and job by the nature of the interview process. If you're a top-shelf professional looking for a top-shelf position, then you should be skeptical of anything less than a top-shelf interview process.
I have seen first hand the adding of significance to surface level things. In my case a wrinkled shirt and not so firm handshake 😀 but I wont go into that. In another instance I happened to correct one of the interviewers on a technical question (imagine that), but was passed up due to again a surface level judgment. Eye contact was very important to one of the interviewers. Its not like I was looking away and ignoring my subject. I do not want to make anyone uncomfortable with firm stares, some cultures may find that as impolite even.
Wrinkled shirt, weak handshake, minimal eye contact... it sounds like the HR gate keeper was effectively weeding out all the Asperger types before they even reached the IT interview. Which is a shame since many of them are among the best programmers and database administrators.
I completely agree. My son is "on the spectrum" as they put it (he has been diagnosed with Asperger's) and that's one of my greatest concerns for him. He doesn't do eye contact. People will judge him on the lack of regular social norms, whereas they shouldn't. I'm afraid it will still be a few hundred years or so before people begin to stop judging by surface things, assuming that everyone else is like themselves.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
December 11, 2015 at 9:30 am
Rod at work (12/11/2015)
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
MMartin1 (12/10/2015)
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
Good advise Eric, thanks.In many cases the interviewer doesn't really know what they're asking about, and this would be the guys who asked a lot of syntax related questions without two way discussions. Ultimately these guys make their determination based on surface level things like confidence and appearance, so if you want the job, you might as well not break form, regardless of how you perceive the interview is going. However, that is probably more useful advice for entry level job seekers.
The real question is whether any of us here would even want the job once we determine the questions are practically irrelevant. There have been occasions where I've been fifteen minutes into an interview and arrived at the conclusion that they are wasting MY time. We can gauge the nature of the organization and job by the nature of the interview process. If you're a top-shelf professional looking for a top-shelf position, then you should be skeptical of anything less than a top-shelf interview process.
I have seen first hand the adding of significance to surface level things. In my case a wrinkled shirt and not so firm handshake 😀 but I wont go into that. In another instance I happened to correct one of the interviewers on a technical question (imagine that), but was passed up due to again a surface level judgment. Eye contact was very important to one of the interviewers. Its not like I was looking away and ignoring my subject. I do not want to make anyone uncomfortable with firm stares, some cultures may find that as impolite even.
Wrinkled shirt, weak handshake, minimal eye contact... it sounds like the HR gate keeper was effectively weeding out all the Asperger types before they even reached the IT interview. Which is a shame since many of them are among the best programmers and database administrators.
I completely agree. My son is "on the spectrum" as they put it (he has been diagnosed with Asperger's) and that's one of my greatest concerns for him. He doesn't do eye contact. People will judge him on the lack of regular social norms, whereas they shouldn't. I'm afraid it will still be a few hundred years or so before people begin to stop judging by surface things, assuming that everyone else is like themselves.
I've about given up on society at large. But it doesn't matter; there are plenty of organizations out there who not only hire folks with social ticks but their IT department (at least) may be staffed with nothing but. Your son should do fine if you encourage him to follow his passion and never give up.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
December 11, 2015 at 10:40 am
Rod at work (12/11/2015)
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
MMartin1 (12/10/2015)
Eric M Russell (12/10/2015)
Rod at work (12/9/2015)
Good advise Eric, thanks.In many cases the interviewer doesn't really know what they're asking about, and this would be the guys who asked a lot of syntax related questions without two way discussions. Ultimately these guys make their determination based on surface level things like confidence and appearance, so if you want the job, you might as well not break form, regardless of how you perceive the interview is going. However, that is probably more useful advice for entry level job seekers.
The real question is whether any of us here would even want the job once we determine the questions are practically irrelevant. There have been occasions where I've been fifteen minutes into an interview and arrived at the conclusion that they are wasting MY time. We can gauge the nature of the organization and job by the nature of the interview process. If you're a top-shelf professional looking for a top-shelf position, then you should be skeptical of anything less than a top-shelf interview process.
I have seen first hand the adding of significance to surface level things. In my case a wrinkled shirt and not so firm handshake 😀 but I wont go into that. In another instance I happened to correct one of the interviewers on a technical question (imagine that), but was passed up due to again a surface level judgment. Eye contact was very important to one of the interviewers. Its not like I was looking away and ignoring my subject. I do not want to make anyone uncomfortable with firm stares, some cultures may find that as impolite even.
Wrinkled shirt, weak handshake, minimal eye contact... it sounds like the HR gate keeper was effectively weeding out all the Asperger types before they even reached the IT interview. Which is a shame since many of them are among the best programmers and database administrators.
I completely agree. My son is "on the spectrum" as they put it (he has been diagnosed with Asperger's) and that's one of my greatest concerns for him. He doesn't do eye contact. People will judge him on the lack of regular social norms, whereas they shouldn't. I'm afraid it will still be a few hundred years or so before people begin to stop judging by surface things, assuming that everyone else is like themselves.
Dont give up. Different managers recognize different qualities for all sorts of people. I being on the spectrum my self I think have been told by one interviewer how I reminded him of another guy who was really good at his job...from my quirky things I described, heh. You just gotta play the odds.
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