April 17, 2018 at 9:06 am
It has been fun watching this tread turning into a water-cooler type of a chat 😉
😎
Just my 2 Cents on the topic, it outclasses Brexit by million miles:crying:
April 17, 2018 at 10:15 am
Eirikur Eiriksson - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:06 AMIt has been fun watching this tread turning into a water-cooler type of a chat 😉
😎Just my 2 Cents on the topic, it outclasses Brexit by million miles:crying:
The ability to formulate and understand rational argument is a prerequisite for having a successful career in IT. Forget about war heroes, TV stars, and media personalities; we need more IT people in politics.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
April 17, 2018 at 10:18 am
Eric M Russell - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:15 AMEirikur Eiriksson - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:06 AMIt has been fun watching this tread turning into a water-cooler type of a chat 😉
😎Just my 2 Cents on the topic, it outclasses Brexit by million miles:crying:
The ability to formulate and understand rational argument is a prerequisite for having a successful career in IT. Forget about war heroes, TV stars, and media personalities; we need more IT people in politics.
I like the idea... now if it was possible to eliminate all the "problem" IT folks, and then require the politicians to be IT folks, we could conquer the world! .... yeah , right... probably not in my lifetime... :hehe::hehe::hehe:
Steve (aka sgmunson) 🙂 🙂 🙂
Rent Servers for Income (picks and shovels strategy)
April 17, 2018 at 4:55 pm
funbi - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 6:00 AMEver heard of ORMs/Linq? Does anyone cobble together SQL in code any more? Use SP's for heavy lifting for sure but the problems you are listing have been solved in the application layer some time ago.
Ever heard of Access?
Pretty nice thing.
Comfortable design tools, front end and reporting - all in one package.
And the best part: it will beat any ORM/Linq based solutions in terms of performance and scalability hands down.
ORM/Linq solutions only good until the whole database fits in memory.
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
April 17, 2018 at 5:07 pm
sgmunson - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:18 AMEric M Russell - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:15 AMEirikur Eiriksson - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:06 AMIt has been fun watching this tread turning into a water-cooler type of a chat 😉
😎Just my 2 Cents on the topic, it outclasses Brexit by million miles:crying:
The ability to formulate and understand rational argument is a prerequisite for having a successful career in IT. Forget about war heroes, TV stars, and media personalities; we need more IT people in politics.
I like the idea... now if it was possible to eliminate all the "problem" IT folks, and then require the politicians to be IT folks, we could conquer the world! .... yeah , right... probably not in my lifetime... :hehe::hehe::hehe:
It will go as with any other speciality:
Good IT folks will progress in their IT careers, where they can be brilliant and successful.
And bad IT people will turn to politics.
On a positive side - their exit to politics will clean up the industry from a lot of BS, which has become so dominating lately.
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
April 17, 2018 at 5:31 pm
xsevensinzx - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 6:22 AMWell, this was the underlying point I was making in my prior post. That stored procedure development can be a bottleneck and the usage of ORM can speed up that process. I guess I didn't explicitly say ORM, but that's ideally what I was referring to overall. There are other approaches than having to rely on a stored procedure to be developed, that will likely be developed by someone else other than the developer working on the application end.I'm on the same page as you for a lot of the mundane areas of database interaction. ORM's can handle a good bulk of that. But when it comes to more of the complex tasks that may require more complex SQL, then it's likely going to require a different approach from someone who knows how to get the best out of the underlying code and system through a stored procedure among other things like proper modeling, indexing, and so forth.
Speed up what?
Generating a pile of rubbish wihich will stop responding in timely manner after several months in production?
Have you ever tested ORM based solutions on 5 years orth of data?
I don't think so, because from my experience project managers make every effort to prevent you from "wasting time and resources on this couter productive exercise" (exact quote from an internal email).
And there is a very strong reason for that: with 5 years worth of data in the database ORM suddenly stops "speeding up the process".
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
April 17, 2018 at 6:50 pm
Eric M Russell - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:15 AMEirikur Eiriksson - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:06 AMIt has been fun watching this tread turning into a water-cooler type of a chat 😉
😎Just my 2 Cents on the topic, it outclasses Brexit by million miles:crying:
The ability to formulate and understand rational argument is a prerequisite for having a successful career in IT. Forget about war heroes, TV stars, and media personalities; we need more IT people in politics.
And have policies based on data and fact?? Oh wait, yeah, the irrational bickering gets old, so good idea!
April 18, 2018 at 3:07 am
Sergiy - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 4:55 PMfunbi - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 6:00 AMEver heard of ORMs/Linq? Does anyone cobble together SQL in code any more? Use SP's for heavy lifting for sure but the problems you are listing have been solved in the application layer some time ago.Ever heard of Access?
Pretty nice thing.
Comfortable design tools, front end and reporting - all in one package.
And the best part: it will beat any ORM/Linq based solutions in terms of performance and scalability hands down.ORM/Linq solutions only good until the whole database fits in memory.
Linq uses deferred execution so never holds more than it needs to in memory. As I said, and we agree, one should use SPs for the heavy lifting. The issues that Hugo was talking about (joining to other tables, filtering, aggregation, preventing sql injection & server round trips per row, storing logic etc) are all now handled very easily in the ORM/application layers.
April 18, 2018 at 5:16 am
Have you ever tested ORM based solutions on 5 years orth of data?
I don't think its out of the question that any given project can have problems once a database becomes larger. What I'm wondering though, is this a structural (and unsolvable) problem with ORM's?
April 18, 2018 at 6:02 am
pietlinden - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 6:50 PMEric M Russell - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:15 AMEirikur Eiriksson - Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:06 AMIt has been fun watching this tread turning into a water-cooler type of a chat 😉
😎Just my 2 Cents on the topic, it outclasses Brexit by million miles:crying:
The ability to formulate and understand rational argument is a prerequisite for having a successful career in IT. Forget about war heroes, TV stars, and media personalities; we need more IT people in politics.
And have policies based on data and fact?? Oh wait, yeah, the irrational bickering gets old, so good idea!
He he, having worked in National Statistics, the idea isn't too bad😉
😎
April 18, 2018 at 7:16 am
The thing is, cloud databases like Azure SQL, Cosmos DB, and AWS not only support but promote stored procedures.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
April 18, 2018 at 7:27 am
Eric M Russell - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:16 AMThe thing is, cloud databases like Azure SQL, Cosmos DB, and AWS not only support but promote stored procedures.
"Azure Cosmos DB's language-integrated, transactional execution of JavaScript lets developers write stored procedures, triggers, and user-defined functions (UDFs) natively in an ECMAScript 2015 JavaScript. "
Ok lets have a new argument about JavaScript then!
April 18, 2018 at 8:23 am
patrickmcginnis59 10839 - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:27 AMEric M Russell - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:16 AMThe thing is, cloud databases like Azure SQL, Cosmos DB, and AWS not only support but promote stored procedures."Azure Cosmos DB's language-integrated, transactional execution of JavaScript lets developers write stored procedures, triggers, and user-defined functions (UDFs) natively in an ECMAScript 2015 JavaScript. "
Ok lets have a new argument about JavaScript then!
Well, the discussion is really about whether stored procedures should still play a role in cloud database architecture. Cosmos DB supports a SQL-ish language with extensions to support querying things like JSON documents and graphs. Instead of T-SQL, it's batch programming language is JavaScript, which makes sense because it's working with JSON documents.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cosmos-db/programming
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
April 18, 2018 at 9:22 am
Eric M Russell - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 8:23 AMpatrickmcginnis59 10839 - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:27 AMEric M Russell - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:16 AMThe thing is, cloud databases like Azure SQL, Cosmos DB, and AWS not only support but promote stored procedures."Azure Cosmos DB's language-integrated, transactional execution of JavaScript lets developers write stored procedures, triggers, and user-defined functions (UDFs) natively in an ECMAScript 2015 JavaScript. "
Ok lets have a new argument about JavaScript then!
Well, the discussion is really about whether stored procedures should still play a role in cloud database architecture. Cosmos DB supports a SQL-ish language with extensions to support querying things like JSON documents and graphs. Instead of T-SQL, it's batch programming language is JavaScript, which makes sense because it's working with JSON documents.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cosmos-db/programming
Stop being sensible, we want to have a fight about javascript! 😀
April 18, 2018 at 9:52 am
funbi - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 9:22 AMEric M Russell - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 8:23 AMpatrickmcginnis59 10839 - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:27 AMEric M Russell - Wednesday, April 18, 2018 7:16 AMThe thing is, cloud databases like Azure SQL, Cosmos DB, and AWS not only support but promote stored procedures."Azure Cosmos DB's language-integrated, transactional execution of JavaScript lets developers write stored procedures, triggers, and user-defined functions (UDFs) natively in an ECMAScript 2015 JavaScript. "
Ok lets have a new argument about JavaScript then!
Well, the discussion is really about whether stored procedures should still play a role in cloud database architecture. Cosmos DB supports a SQL-ish language with extensions to support querying things like JSON documents and graphs. Instead of T-SQL, it's batch programming language is JavaScript, which makes sense because it's working with JSON documents.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cosmos-db/programming
Stop being sensible, we want to have a fight about javascript! 😀
Imagine having 10,000 mobile app users all checking their account at the same time,or 1,000,000 users all hitting the database within an hour, because someone in marketing decided to blast out a promotional notification to the entire global user base. :crying:
I love SQL, but I don't want to fight JSON, JavaScript, and NoSQL databases. I'd rather ignore the ideological arguments on both sides of the NoSQL debate and instead press these tools into those use cases where they are needed. It makes sense to leverage a service oriented document database like Cosmos DB to contain your websites shopping cart or serve as a high transaction volume data mart for a mobile application. 🙂
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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