October 23, 2013 at 8:34 am
Gary Varga (10/23/2013)
below86 (10/23/2013)
Not to open a can of worms from a previous post, but for those of you with less time, wouldn't a union be great to fight for you to have more time off(paid)? I know I would, 30+ days off sounds better to me like they have in the UK.NHS staff = civil servants i.e. public sector workers.
In theory, and very much historically, the larger amount of holidays was to cater for accepting a lower wage from whichever government body they worked for.
As for unions it is a very complex issue. Just look at what they achieved at Grangemouth today. Or rather between the union and the employer over 1300 people have just lost their jobs. Please note that I am not putting any blame on any party as I don't know all the facts. All I am saying is that unions are not a panacea (silver bullets are not restricted to IT).
It may not be the answer, but if I only had 10 days vacation and sick, I would be doing something to change that. I am not in a union, and have never been. Maybe I just have an over simplified view of what unions have done for us today. Having weekends off, paid vacation, paid sick time, paid holidays, etc. Not all of us are good negotiators, some of us would benefit from someone working on our behalf.
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we travel not to escape life but for life not to escape us
Don't fear failure, fear regret.
October 23, 2013 at 8:38 am
below86 (10/23/2013)
Gary Varga (10/23/2013)
below86 (10/23/2013)
Not to open a can of worms from a previous post, but for those of you with less time, wouldn't a union be great to fight for you to have more time off(paid)? I know I would, 30+ days off sounds better to me like they have in the UK.NHS staff = civil servants i.e. public sector workers.
In theory, and very much historically, the larger amount of holidays was to cater for accepting a lower wage from whichever government body they worked for.
As for unions it is a very complex issue. Just look at what they achieved at Grangemouth today. Or rather between the union and the employer over 1300 people have just lost their jobs. Please note that I am not putting any blame on any party as I don't know all the facts. All I am saying is that unions are not a panacea (silver bullets are not restricted to IT).
It may not be the answer, but if I only had 10 days vacation and sick, I would be doing something to change that. I am not in a union, and have never been. Maybe I just have an over simplified view of what unions have done for us today. Having weekends off, paid vacation, paid sick time, paid holidays, etc. Not all of us are good negotiators, some of us would benefit from someone working on our behalf.
I agree. Nowadays I would not want to work for an establishment that thought that was adequate as I would assume that I would not like their attitudes to other aspects too.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 23, 2013 at 8:50 am
Hi Steve, I am very sorry to hear about your friends; I just had one of my oldest friends pass away last year as well and he was only 44. Life is too short. When I was at my 25th high school reunion, a friend told me that we've passed the threshold where we will be going to more funerals than weddings. I hope that time does not come for a couple of more decades as I am planning on getting married in 2014.
I read another article where they were talking about how the average worker works longer hours, with fewer days off than surfs in the middle ages. I wish the companies in the U.S. and Asia would adopt the European standard of about a month of vacation a year,as opposed to two weeks. I think the standard of living would actually increase as there would be more people needed to work and overtime would be a thing of the past, with a few exceptions, for when something unplanned happens. Unemployment would go down and people would live longer, with less stress. I also think that's why heart disease is lower in Europe as well.
It would be nice, but contemporary business thinking has been so inflexible. HR departments tend to frown on unconventional work schedules. Comp time is also another area HR does not like. I think as long as you do good work and present value for your company, the working hours should be between you and your boss.
October 23, 2013 at 8:52 am
In the UK the legal minimum is 28 days including public holidays. Many companies offer a week more than that and give additional holiday to longer-serving employees. This does not apply to contract staff though who have more choice in the "time vs money" equation.
October 23, 2013 at 9:02 am
Richard Warr (10/23/2013)
In the UK the legal minimum is 28 days including public holidays. Many companies offer a week more than that and give additional holiday to longer-serving employees. This does not apply to contract staff though who have more choice in the "time vs money" equation.
OK, next year I'm looking for a job in the UK. 🙂
I would gladly give up a portion of my salary for another week off.
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we travel not to escape life but for life not to escape us
Don't fear failure, fear regret.
October 23, 2013 at 9:10 am
Knowledge workers have no reason to unionize. We can cut far better deals with management on our own than collectively.
October 23, 2013 at 9:14 am
Employees are given vacation for extremely good reasons. Good managers will ensure that work is organized so that vacation can be taken and will insist that everyone take their share.
Managers who do not take vacation set an ugly example and contribute substantially to low morale.
Sorry about your friends, Steve. You are right, life truly is short.
October 23, 2013 at 9:14 am
Steve,
I am sorry for your loss. Anytime someone passes away, their friends and family are left with trying to cope with the loss. It is especially difficult for younger people, and anyone who dies before age 50, even 60, is young!
Sometimes you write about how we need to spend more time learning to benefit our career options. This article points out another view. I agree that both views are important, but especially given the economy today, many people are working much longer hours, being denied time off, and don't have sufficient time to spend with their families. Adding more education, especially unpaid, isn't always the best option. This article points out why the alternative of taking time off and spending it with your family is more important.
Life is too short. We tend not to realize that until it is too late. While I wish you had not experienced any loss at all, I reaalize we all do eventually.
Dave
October 23, 2013 at 9:26 am
GeorgeCopeland (10/23/2013)
Knowledge workers have no reason to unionize. We can cut far better deals with management on our own than collectively.
I disagree. Just because you are a good programmer, developer, DBA, or whatever, doesn't mean you are a good negotiator. I'm happy you are a good negotiator but there is power in numbers.
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we travel not to escape life but for life not to escape us
Don't fear failure, fear regret.
October 23, 2013 at 9:26 am
Ian Massi (10/23/2013)
I've heard that in some places it's mandatory to take at least a week at a time at least once a year in order to make sure that you haven't become mission critical.
That sounds like a brilliant policy. I take it a step further. Every job that I have had, I have tried to eliminate it - improve processes and documentation so that my job becomes unnecessary. Everytime I am successful at this, they just give me more to do.
October 23, 2013 at 9:29 am
I disagree. Just because you are a good programmer, developer, DBA, or whatever, doesn't mean you are a good negotiator. I'm happy you are a good negotiator but there is power in numbers.
When a knowledge worker walks out the door, his work tools go with him. Auto workers don't have that advantage. You don't have to be much of a negotiator to take advantage of this fact.
October 23, 2013 at 9:32 am
GeorgeCopeland (10/23/2013)
I disagree. Just because you are a good programmer, developer, DBA, or whatever, doesn't mean you are a good negotiator. I'm happy you are a good negotiator but there is power in numbers.
When a knowledge worker walks out the door, his work tools go with him. Auto workers don't have that advantage. You don't have to be much of a negotiator to take advantage of this fact.
His knowledge might go with him, but all the places I've work have a rule in place that code developed for the company stays with the company. If you were good at your job and automated things, they will stay automated when you leave. No one else may know how to troubleshoot the processes or problems, but that's another issue.
October 23, 2013 at 9:36 am
I am pretty happy with my current employer, we have 15 PTO + 7 sick days. If we don't take sick time, it builds up to extended sick time, so if you have a surgery or some emergency, you don't lose your vacation for an illness.
In creative positions, and yes, I do think DBA's and developers are included as we have to think creatively, not just be drones, we need our downtime to recharge and come up with new ideas. I've gotten some of my best ideas when I was out sailing on the boat, far away from anything electrically powered.
October 23, 2013 at 9:43 am
LightVader (10/23/2013)
GeorgeCopeland (10/23/2013)
I disagree. Just because you are a good programmer, developer, DBA, or whatever, doesn't mean you are a good negotiator. I'm happy you are a good negotiator but there is power in numbers.
When a knowledge worker walks out the door, his work tools go with him. Auto workers don't have that advantage. You don't have to be much of a negotiator to take advantage of this fact.
His knowledge might go with him, but all the places I've work have a rule in place that code developed for the company stays with the company. If you were good at your job and automated things, they will stay automated when you leave. No one else may know how to troubleshoot the processes or problems, but that's another issue.
Exactly!!! Well said.
If I'm maintaining/writing SQL, or whatever, most of the day, I'm sure there are thousands of people that could replace me today. Yes my knowledge of the company and our systems may leave but everything would keep going on without me. Now if I joined up with my entire team and we all demanded another week of vacation, or whatever it be, they would have to take it seriously.
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we travel not to escape life but for life not to escape us
Don't fear failure, fear regret.
October 23, 2013 at 9:43 am
GeorgeCopeland (10/23/2013)
Ian Massi (10/23/2013)
I've heard that in some places it's mandatory to take at least a week at a time at least once a year in order to make sure that you haven't become mission critical.That sounds like a brilliant policy. I take it a step further. Every job that I have had, I have tried to eliminate it - improve processes and documentation so that my job becomes unnecessary. Everytime I am successful at this, they just give me more to do.
Seen this time and time again (not just for myself). If only people would learn this!!!
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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