March 7, 2014 at 10:55 am
Other than if there's an application that isn't compatible with SQL Server 2012, are there any reasons v2008 or 2008R2 would be a better choice than v2012? As v2012 has been out for some time and v2014 will be the latest release soon, it's not bleeding edge or a "0" release so are there any other reasons? We have Windows Server 2008R2. Is an older version of SQL Server less expensive? Thanks. Any opinions or advice is welcome.
March 7, 2014 at 11:51 am
If you are heavily using SQL Server features that are discontinued in SQL 2012 and if it involves huge effort to replace those functionalities then that would be a business reason.
Check this link for the discontinued features ..
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms144262.aspx
Also legacy DTS packages can't be hosted in SQL 2012. Suppose you have large no of packages you need to convert them to SSIS before you can upgrade to 2012.
For cost comparison check these ..
http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2009/11/sql-server-2008-r2-pricing-and-feature-changes/
http://blog.fpweb.net/choosing-between-sql-server-2012-sql-server-2008/#.UxoRK-OwKk8
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SQLBuddy
March 7, 2014 at 11:56 am
The only reason, other than outright compatibility issues, is price.
The licensing costs for SQL Server 2012 are different than 2008R2 and less. For most situations I've seen, they're more. So, going with the older version could cost less, at least in the short term. But then you're installing six year old technology as a starting point. It's more likely to age out of support, not have necessary updates, all sorts of other, hidden, costs that may preclude that short-term licensing cost gain.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 7, 2014 at 4:48 pm
Thank you Grant Fritchey. I came to this job from a mostly SQL Server 2012 shop so I was dismayed to find the network administrator's husband installing SQL Server 2008. The compromise was 2008R2 when I asked if we could install a newer version. There weren't any existing SQL Server servers and no applications requiring an old version. Politics were thick. No one here knows what a DBA does but it's assumed that a DBA queries the data but doesn't take care of the database(??). The network admin (probably with help from her husband) wants to do that. I didn't have any knowledge of this situation until I arrived. I was told it was a new operation and I could build the servers from the ground up. Sounded ideal. Now there's another server that they've installed. I believe that in a situation of buying new licenses for SQL Server for a brand new operation there isn't a good reason to go with old versions as you said. I am a DBA but I was an Oracle one until two years ago. My last job was a SQL Server DBA with transactional replication between servers in different centers.
The budget here is not tight but no one knows whether I'm correct or the network administrator/desktop support person is correct so I have an uphill climb because she got here 6 months before me and none of the executive team has a technical background. Their eyes glaze over if I try to explain the difference between the roles.
Thanks for reading my tail of woe. Your answer helps me with trying to get upgrades though because maybe the licenses "purchased" through her husbands company can be upgraded.
March 7, 2014 at 4:51 pm
Thank you SQL Buddy! None of these situations apply to us because everything is new because before I came the tiny staff never coded in SQL but one of the Directors wanted a server-based databases instead of the existing Access databases. That doesn't stop the two-person existing staff from installing everything and controlling things though, unfortunately.
March 7, 2014 at 9:51 pm
Since this is a new position, it sounds like an ideal time to talk to your supervisor and relay the "you hired me because..." and "this is what we need because"
If you wait too long to have a talk, it might be too late, and the husband will forever be an obstacle in you getting your job done, and your handle on the company's data/processes.
______________________________________________________________________________Never argue with an idiot; Theyll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
March 8, 2014 at 4:11 am
MyDoggieJessie (3/7/2014)
Since this is a new position, it sounds like an ideal time to talk to your supervisor and relay the "you hired me because..." and "this is what we need because"If you wait too long to have a talk, it might be too late, and the husband will forever be an obstacle in you getting your job done, and your handle on the company's data/processes.
Plus 10 Million!
I really couldn't agree more.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 8, 2014 at 5:03 am
Thanks MyDoggieJesse. I am pretty direct so I did discuss it immediately when I found out but no one would do anything. The wife screamed at me after hours when no one else was around and said no DBA had ever patched the DB servers much less installed the SQL instances (she called it "the database") wherever she had worked before. And she had worked in five (5!!) states while being "hit on" by Jake Gyllenhall in one of those states while she was trying to work. Recently a new server came in that her husband installed at their home because she's on maternity leave and it was purchased through his company (consulting business). I've only worked in two states 😉 but wherever I've worked the DBA did install SQL Server/Oracle and usually I had local admin access to the boxes as well unless there was a knowledgeable system administrator who'd work with me on things that I didn't have access to.
This story is a little hilarious if I didn't have to live through it. Not sure how many states you've worked in is the litmus test for authority but maybe I'm out of touch. In the short time I've been in the job I have a new boss now who may end up straightening things out but he's not technical so it's taking a while.
March 8, 2014 at 5:13 am
Agreed Grant Fritchey. I've been about as direct as I could be without getting fired. My old boss was clueless about SQL and tried to get me to use Access instead. I explained how Access is fine for some things but not for the system they want now that the company has grown so much. I didn't show him this but I was tempted: [/url]
My new boss isn't technical but he'd heard about SQL Server at his last job and wanted it. I'm working on getting him to understand but it's taking time. I truly believe now that the ones who hired me as a DBA didn't know what that is. I believe they think a developer is always the DBA because all they've known is Access and it doesn't need administering or, say, replication.
March 8, 2014 at 6:18 am
Here's a thought, play devil's advocate: go to the husband who set up and configured the server - Ask him how he configured the storage array: Ask how he aligned the disks? What block size was configured, which RAID type(s) did he choose? And why? If the answers aren't acceptable then take that to your boss and say "here's why "I" need to be taking the lead on this...etc" - if the husband has done a goodjob, then make him an allie (sp?) and say "hey I think we got off on the wrong foot here.." - because obviously had a decent idea of what he's doing 😉
______________________________________________________________________________Never argue with an idiot; Theyll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
March 8, 2014 at 10:40 am
Actually the wife (who is an employee) told me not to talk to him because he's "busy". He does much of the work at home and orders the equipment through his business (he consults so he's self-employed). He's paid to do the work because they know him through the wife. He doesn't know databases at all. He installed the software by clicking "next" and accepting the defaults. She knows the Windows operating system through her work with networking them and I think she's going to be fine with taking on the system administration role to grow her career. She just needs to get over herself and give me the rights I need to do my job as DBA and web administrator. She "hates programming" so she wants me to do that. Unfortunately she wants to carve out too much of the DBA role (transactional replication! Get real.) for herself but says she doesn't want to be a DBA. She is junior to me in rank and in the first 3 years of her IT career but, because the executives are not technical they do not know what to do about this situation. Because she already has all the access and power things stay that way until I convince them otherwise.
Because I've been setting up everything on my own laptop (?!) to show them .Net interfaces to SQL Server,SSRS, etc. to demonstrate what I'll move to the server when I have the proper privileges, I have leverage. They love the prototypes and I have been telling them I will move it all to server so they aren't connecting to my laptop to look at reports and enter data,etc. They know that if I take the laptop home they don't have access to the stuff until I VPN in. They still get a glazed look on their faces when I say that I've set everything up on my laptop as if if were a server but that it's slower, non-robust, etc.
But things have been trending my way with various personnel developments so maybe all will be ok soon.
Thanks for your support and counsel.
March 8, 2014 at 12:21 pm
Best of luck. You know where to go if you need more help.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 8, 2014 at 12:49 pm
Thanks you guys are so helpful and supportive!
March 8, 2014 at 4:45 pm
🙂 I think we've all been in a similar situation so stay positive and don't get personal, stick to the facts and what's best for the company (and your role as the DBA)
______________________________________________________________________________Never argue with an idiot; Theyll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
March 11, 2014 at 1:44 pm
Are the higher-ups aware that the now have an employee in-house with the applicable skills to install and maintain "the database"? They may not understand technology, but I would hope they understand billed time for consultants.
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