January 21, 2015 at 10:51 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/21/2015)
Brian J. Parker (1/21/2015)
... you just need legislation that helps rather than meddles and creates unnecessary bureaucracy, a topic that can quickly spiral out of control. 🙂 Food for thought, Steve.you write it, I'll vote for it.
I think this is easier said than done. Perhaps if we had .1% of the lawyers we have today, this would be easier with arbitrators and judges.
Well said. I don't claim to have the answers, so this legislation will be an interesting experiment to watch and see if it helps or hurts.
January 21, 2015 at 10:58 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/21/2015)
Eric M Russell (1/21/2015)
I don't take offense if I'm called after work, so long as it's regarding something that's broke in production. The way I see it, if I done by due dilligence, it wouldn't have broke in the first place, or I simply failed to check the operational stats before leaving out for the day. As for emails, anything not flagged as emergency will sit in my inbox until the following morning. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I don't feel compelled to respond to every email as soon as I get it.However, I would take offense to someone calling me up on the phone just to gripe about something in general or rehash what they already said at a meeting earlier in the day. In that case, send an email, and I'll read it and respond in the morning.
Fortunately this type of thing has never been a problem in my current job.
Good for you, but this is a question of scale. I don't mind being called off hours, but I do mind being called during off hours every day, or even every week. This is especially true when I can't necessarily affect every system or situation. I've had plenty of times when I'm responsible to fix things, but aren't responsible for controlling changes.
I get an after hours call maybe once every three months, and even then I usually have some warning ahead of time. For example, earlier in the week I'll get notification that there will be a deployment or special data processing taking place over the upcoming weekend, so I know I might be called if there is a need for a diagnoses or post production fix.
I never get calls after hours just for routine requests or talking shop. Honestly, I wouldn't stick around if I did. For those of us in IT, I'm not sure if we need Big Brother standing up for us on the playground; we can vote for better working conditions using our feet. The IT industry as a whole really can't be stereotyped; one organization, team, or manager places vastly different demands on it's employees than another.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 21, 2015 at 11:24 am
Eric M Russell (1/21/2015)
For those of us in IT, I'm not sure if we need Big Brother standing up for us on the playground; we can vote for better working conditions using our feet. The IT industry as a whole really can't be stereotyped; one organization, team, or manager places vastly different demands on it's employees than another.
You make a good point. We have the luxury of forming our opinions through the lenses of people with valuable skills who have leverage to demand good working conditions.
January 21, 2015 at 11:48 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/21/2015)
DavidL (1/21/2015)
Steve: Can you explain a little why you don't think the German law can work, or is a good idea (don't remember exactly what you said about it)?I think that there are going to be exceptions to this, especially for technology people. I suspect companies will "alter" work hours, or they'll claim there are things broken that should have been fixed during the day (noted by Eric above). I think that also there are lots of employees that want to get ahead and are willing to work harder or longer to show their loyalty or ambition to the company. That creates pressure for others to do the same, or find new employment.
Ultimately I see laws like this that are a race to the bottom in terms of finding exceptions, both by companies and other employees.
It might work, and I'd love to be proven wrong. Just not sure how well it will work.
I see your point. I lived and worked for a number of years in Germany, and they have a very different attitude about these things -- in the u.s. we tend to label it as 'socialist' but however one labels it they are comfortable with a far higher degree of government activism to ensure a level playing field.
As an example, there was a huge debate during the time I was there as to whether stores could open on Sundays. Most people were not in favor -- they saw it as another way smaller family owned businesses would be at a disadvantage compared to very large companies, the end result being they'd have no choice but to work 7 days a week. It took a while to appreciate their point of view, but with time I saw the trade off of not being able to shop 24/7 having a number of upsides.
But these kinds of things are really part of the social compact between all parts of society. In the u.s. I think we are very heavily weighted towards commerce being a universal good, to the point where it is not even examined as a premise any more. Only occasionally will it become an issue, like in some usually smaller cities when people debate the opening of a new chain -- reasonably pointing out that mega stores (walmarts etc) opening on the outskirts of town tend to gut local businesses and downtowns. Very rare to get any traction with that kind of discussion, though. Unfortunately, from my point of view.
January 21, 2015 at 1:33 pm
Brian J. Parker (1/21/2015)
Eric M Russell (1/21/2015)
For those of us in IT, I'm not sure if we need Big Brother standing up for us on the playground; we can vote for better working conditions using our feet. The IT industry as a whole really can't be stereotyped; one organization, team, or manager places vastly different demands on it's employees than another.You make a good point. We have the luxury of forming our opinions through the lenses of people with valuable skills who have leverage to demand good working conditions.
I do believe the government should apply a grease wherever it's needed, but only where needed. Everyone, regardless of background, forms their opinion through a narrow lense. It seems to me that some folks may be fretting over work related emails in off hours or taking work home when it's not really required or needed. If some folks start charging their employer for time spent reading email off hours, then the employer may decide they're more trouble then they're worth.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 10, 2015 at 4:44 am
Employment legislation, at least here in the UK, has made it easier for the working class to have paid leave and to work less than 7 days a week.
There is a balance to ensure that the, often ignored, lower classes are protected from abuse.
I am not sure whether the German legislation does that.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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