January 20, 2015 at 8:20 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item R-E-S-P-E-C-T
January 21, 2015 at 4:18 am
Steve, the German laws have more to do about enforcing a level playing field across all employers than it has to do with the individual. Without such statute limits employers can simply abuse their workforce (and it becomes an arms race who can squeeze the most out of the least number).
In small communities the issue doesn't arise as an abusive employer will find it harder and harder to recruit employees. So in large communities, running a public employer 'score card' isn't legal (or if not illegal, you'll get sued), you need the state to dictate.
Chris
January 21, 2015 at 7:27 am
At the company I work for, with a few exceptions, work life balance is pretty well respected.
I think at least some of the resposponsibility for respect of off-hours falls on the employee. I've seen many who seem to enjoy being a fire-fighter and that sets a bad presidence for the rest of us. Rather than taking some time during the day to automate a process, many try to bolster thier worth with the company by keeping the process manual or by withholding documentation. I like to sleep at night and keep my repeated keytrokes to a minimum. I find it provides me more time to enjoy the parts of my work that are most fullilling to me. I also have found that in the long term this approach actually increases your worth to the company. You become the knowlegable goto guy who actually fixes things, rather than the victim reacting to every crisis.
January 21, 2015 at 8:16 am
I don't take offense if I'm called after work, so long as it's regarding something that's broke in production. The way I see it, if I done by due dilligence, it wouldn't have broke in the first place, or I simply failed to check the operational stats before leaving out for the day. As for emails, anything not flagged as emergency will sit in my inbox until the following morning. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I don't feel compelled to respond to every email as soon as I get it.
However, I would take offense to someone calling me up on the phone just to gripe about something in general or rehash what they already said at a meeting earlier in the day. In that case, send an email, and I'll read it and respond in the morning.
Fortunately this type of thing has never been a problem in my current job.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 21, 2015 at 8:23 am
History is long about the endless battle between the factors of industry. The last 100+ years has been one where labor has been on the rise, but is now starting to fall. Capital is on the rise, while natural resources have been flat or falling.
Steve, you are lucky to be with a company that understands that the best comes from respect. for anyone new to the work world, be wise in what company and industry you choose.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
January 21, 2015 at 8:34 am
Steve: Can you explain a little why you don't think the German law can work, or is a good idea (don't remember exactly what you said about it)?
January 21, 2015 at 8:36 am
Living in the U.S., I shudder at the thought of government interference in business. If I'm in a situation where I feel overworked, I will find a new employer. It's up to me to provide work/life balance.
Tom
January 21, 2015 at 8:43 am
In small communities the issue doesn't arise as an abusive employer will find it harder and harder to recruit employees. So in large communities, running a public employer 'score card' isn't legal (or if not illegal, you'll get sued), you need the state to dictate.
Chris
Well said. I've been part of those that left after many months of constant overtime. I was just replaced with someone else that had to do the same thing. It wasn't until that manager left that the culture at my old job changed (I still had friends there that kept me updated).
January 21, 2015 at 8:58 am
This particular law may or may not help, but arguably legislation can make a difference. A culture of 40 hour weeks would have seemed like a blessing once (not to mention minimum wage and child labor)... you just need legislation that helps rather than meddles and creates unnecessary bureaucracy, a topic that can quickly spiral out of control. 🙂 Food for thought, Steve.
I do agree that a healthy give-and-take is more beneficial to both company and employees than a mandated "wall" between work and personal time. I don't think most people mind picking up an after hours call or putting in extra time for an employer that doesn't abuse it and understands when you want/need to run errands in the middle of the day.
January 21, 2015 at 10:30 am
Chris Cradock (1/21/2015)
Steve, the German laws have more to do about enforcing a level playing field across all employers than it has to do with the individual. Without such statute limits employers can simply abuse their workforce (and it becomes an arms race who can squeeze the most out of the least number).In small communities the issue doesn't arise as an abusive employer will find it harder and harder to recruit employees. So in large communities, running a public employer 'score card' isn't legal (or if not illegal, you'll get sued), you need the state to dictate.
Chris
True, but that playing field impacts workers. In the US, we don't have many laws in this area, and there is an arms race in places to push people to do more.
Small communities could go either way. If most employers do this, or if there are fewer jobs than employees, it's still an issue.
January 21, 2015 at 10:31 am
Eric M Russell (1/21/2015)
I don't take offense if I'm called after work, so long as it's regarding something that's broke in production. The way I see it, if I done by due dilligence, it wouldn't have broke in the first place, or I simply failed to check the operational stats before leaving out for the day. As for emails, anything not flagged as emergency will sit in my inbox until the following morning. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I don't feel compelled to respond to every email as soon as I get it.However, I would take offense to someone calling me up on the phone just to gripe about something in general or rehash what they already said at a meeting earlier in the day. In that case, send an email, and I'll read it and respond in the morning.
Fortunately this type of thing has never been a problem in my current job.
Good for you, but this is a question of scale. I don't mind being called off hours, but I do mind being called during off hours every day, or even every week. This is especially true when I can't necessarily affect every system or situation. I've had plenty of times when I'm responsible to fix things, but aren't responsible for controlling changes.
January 21, 2015 at 10:33 am
Andrew..Peterson (1/21/2015)
Steve, you are lucky to be with a company that understands that the best comes from respect. for anyone new to the work world, be wise in what company and industry you choose.
Haven't always been, but am lucky now. I appreciate it all the time.
January 21, 2015 at 10:37 am
DavidL (1/21/2015)
Steve: Can you explain a little why you don't think the German law can work, or is a good idea (don't remember exactly what you said about it)?
I think that there are going to be exceptions to this, especially for technology people. I suspect companies will "alter" work hours, or they'll claim there are things broken that should have been fixed during the day (noted by Eric above). I think that also there are lots of employees that want to get ahead and are willing to work harder or longer to show their loyalty or ambition to the company. That creates pressure for others to do the same, or find new employment.
Ultimately I see laws like this that are a race to the bottom in terms of finding exceptions, both by companies and other employees.
It might work, and I'd love to be proven wrong. Just not sure how well it will work.
January 21, 2015 at 10:40 am
OCTom (1/21/2015)
Living in the U.S., I shudder at the thought of government interference in business. If I'm in a situation where I feel overworked, I will find a new employer. It's up to me to provide work/life balance.Tom
Overall I agree, but this really means that you have choices. I've been successful as a DBA, arguably, one of the more talented ones out there. My wife has worked. It's been easy(ier) for me to change jobs than many people. There are plenty of people that don't have all the advantages and benefits I've had in career, and no, they're not all from hard work. Some are, some aren't.
I dislike government getting involved because it's hard to write legislation for something like this when circumstances are varied. However there are also plenty of abusive situations out there, some mild, some much worse. I have no solution, other than trying to get the culture to be one that values respect more than profits. Not that profits aren't important, but there are limits.
January 21, 2015 at 10:41 am
Brian J. Parker (1/21/2015)
... you just need legislation that helps rather than meddles and creates unnecessary bureaucracy, a topic that can quickly spiral out of control. 🙂 Food for thought, Steve.
you write it, I'll vote for it.
I think this is easier said than done. Perhaps if we had .1% of the lawyers we have today, this would be easier with arbitrators and judges.
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