July 29, 2010 at 6:39 am
Steve,
I agree with your comments on making yourself more valuable. Also, I can see how this is a tricky subject. My experience with multi-shoring has been mixed. Some of my non US based colleagues have been very skilled, others have novices pushed into expert roles.
I will say that a few of my US based colleagues work for US based consulting companies which also have a significant resource pool from US, India, Philippines and other areas abroad. So my take was that your article was NOT targetting the abroad resource pool specificially. A few of my other US based colleagues work for the top 2 muti-shoring operations and they have been highly valued there too. So obviously there are highly skilled individuals in these operations also.
Back on the skills, I think it is important to show managment that you are a leader and can work effectively with all types of resources including offshore ones. One doesn't want to be seen as hindering progress because of the company's choice to outsource. Earning your employers respect can go a long way.
That being said, if cost is the prevalant issue, then the company will get what it pays for. Just like any job hire, the company should be very careful vetting the potential replacements for your position. Highly skilled, proactive, and communicative team players may carry a higher price tag.
[font="Tahoma"]Cheers,
Sean :-D[/font]
July 29, 2010 at 6:51 am
Arjun,
Well, I have a question for you sir. How much of the American money that you earn from this country do you actually put back into this economy? When is the last time anyone saw an Indian go to an American restuarant, or a sporting event, or even out at a shopping mall? I have gone to all of those places for years and I have never seen or talked to any Indians at any of those places. Or do they spend or send most of it back to their home country to help their families? If the answer to that is that they do, then the money is literally being shipped out of our economies and being lost, and that is the problem with shipping jobs overseas. I have no problem with people sending some money to help their families back in India, but that money is not being put back into our much needed economies right now, and overall it is hurting us very badly. It is a trickle down effect. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 29, 2010 at 7:00 am
LSCIV (7/28/2010)
I wouldn't see DBA and developer duties together being a SOX conflict as long as there's still a system of checks and balances. As long as any job sharing is operating within the boundaries of the existing security framework then I wouldn't see the SOX auditors raising a stink over it.
Well, that has sure not been my experience, and I have been in this business for over 25 years. Just curious, how many compnaies have you worked for in the past that implement SOX?
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 29, 2010 at 7:03 am
Well, Travis I assume your question is addressed to me. Firstly, I was not talking about Indians within US. An average Indian is very stingy. I do agree to that. From what you have said, what's hurting the economy is Indians (and probably people of some other nationalities residing in US) sending money back home. 😎 Well for one, I guess their income is taxed. And secondly, I do not think that will contribute to even 1% of the GDP. But yes, Indians tend to save. Only if i learned to save!! 🙂
- arjun
https://sqlroadie.com/
July 29, 2010 at 7:08 am
Arjun Sivadasan (7/29/2010)
Well, Travis I assume your question is addressed to me. Firstly, I was not talking about Indians within US. An average Indian is very stingy. I do agree to that. From what you have said, what's hurting the economy is Indians (and probably people of some other nationalities residing in US) sending money back home. 😎 Well for one, I guess their income is taxed. And secondly, I do not think that will contribute to even 1% of the GDP. But yes, Indians tend to save. Only if i learned to save!! 🙂- arjun
Well, you just made my point. A lot of American money is going out of this country and not back into our economy and businesses, and that is the main problem with shipping American jobs overseas as i see it. if there was ever a time when we as a country need our jobs and money here in our economy, it is now. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 29, 2010 at 7:12 am
I didn't answer you buddy. I live in India and your guess is correct. I don't put much of what I earn back to US, except for the stuff i buy online from ebay.
BTW, you did not answer my question 🙂
- arjun
https://sqlroadie.com/
July 29, 2010 at 7:21 am
OK, I guess I will stop now. I do think all people should be employed. The unemployment problem that prevails now should be arrested. And I do agree that the jobs rightly belong to them. And I hope Mr Obama does all the things he promised.
Hmm, I am looking forward to iPhones and lappies made in US.
- arjun:-)
https://sqlroadie.com/
July 29, 2010 at 7:26 am
Arjun Sivadasan (7/29/2010)
...Do you think iPhones should instead be made in US? Apple is an American company. So it is fair to say a job created by Apple should employ an American. Isn't this also a form of outsourcing? Do you think this should be stopped too? ...- arjun
The export of manufacturing jobs has been going on even longer than that of IT jobs and it is also a big problem. In a future where transportation which depends largely on petroleum oil becomes more and more expensive, adding to the costs of foreign manufactured goods, we may see the benefits to the parent companies decrease. It would be nice to see manufacturing brought home, but I don't expect that to happen really as the infrastructure is no longer here. And even if overseas manufacturing becomes less popular, the labor is still much cheaper in Mexico. It is precisely those easy entry long-term jobs that are missing from our economy right now, I believe. I mean what is a high school graduate to do? I don't have a solution, really. I'm just saying... :unsure:
😎 Kate The Great :w00t:
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, where will you find time to do it again?
July 29, 2010 at 7:39 am
Exactly!! If the administrators look within, they can find the solution to these problems. There was definitely a time when all 'stuff' was not made in China or some other place. That said, I do think there should be a certain amount of trade (and i mean of everything - software, fmcg etc) between nations, but the volume of goods traded should be kept under check so that the parent country does not have to face such a situation. Greedy corporates and inefficient administrators are the culprits.
- arjun
https://sqlroadie.com/
July 29, 2010 at 7:54 am
Arjun Sivadasan (7/29/2010)
That said, I do think there should be a certain amount of trade (and i mean of everything - software, fmcg etc) between nations, but the volume of goods traded should be kept under check so that the parent country does not have to face such a situation. Greedy corporates and inefficient administrators are the culprits.- arjun
Trade is a different issue than Off-shoring, but it is connected. Most countries are already doing what you state above. Heads of the G20 at their recent London summit in 2008 pledged to abstain from imposing any trade protectionist measures. But 17 of these 20 countries were reported by the World Bank as having imposed trade restrictive measures since then. The World Bank says most of the world's major economies are resorting to protectionist measures because of the global economic slowdown and that is good as far as I am concerned. But, like I said, trade is a separate issue from Off=Shoring of American jobs.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 29, 2010 at 8:37 am
Arjun,
Companies have outsourced manufacturing to other countries for years. The US has done it in Mexico and China. Japan has done it in Korea. The UK has done it in various places. India might be doing it in places as well.
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that, and if the costs are cheaper, I don't think there's anything you can do about it. You can make it illegal, but ultimately that brings about other costs and issues.
The main complaint I think from people in the US now is that there are incentives, or tax advantages, to moving jobs offshore. I think that's a problem. If companies want to move their work to another country, that's fine, but we should not give them tax advantages for doing so. I'd perhaps even eliminate tax deductions for salaries overseas.
July 29, 2010 at 9:01 am
I agree Steve. Tax deductions and any such benefits for this purpose is not reasonable.
@travis - i did not mean trade. I used the wrong word; my mistake. Trade is a totally different aspect. What i meant to say is there should be regulation of the amount of work that corporates get done outside the parent country. Say, 50 percent of manufacturing needs to be done in US. Then there will not be an erosion of manufacturing jobs. Now most countries are very dependant on china, for example. I think there should be a check on this. I don't know if its really practical.
This is a very difficult topic for me to comment on, especially because i don't live in US. Yet i went ahead and posted my thoughts because I wanted to hear from people. I am very young and fairly immature. If i have hurt anyone's sentiments, I didn't mean to do that. I offer my apologies in that case. Thanks for the replies guys.
- arjun
https://sqlroadie.com/
July 29, 2010 at 9:44 am
Arjun Sivadasan (7/29/2010)
What i meant to say is there should be regulation of the amount of work that corporates get done outside the parent country.
On this I wholeheartedly agree. The amount is the issue with me. I also agree with Steve that we definitely need to end incentives and tax breaks for off-shoring American jobs as well. That would be a great start on this issue, but much more needs to be done IMHO.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 29, 2010 at 9:47 am
TravisDBA (7/29/2010)
Arjun Sivadasan (7/29/2010)
Well, Travis I assume your question is addressed to me. Firstly, I was not talking about Indians within US. An average Indian is very stingy. I do agree to that. From what you have said, what's hurting the economy is Indians (and probably people of some other nationalities residing in US) sending money back home. 😎 Well for one, I guess their income is taxed. And secondly, I do not think that will contribute to even 1% of the GDP. But yes, Indians tend to save. Only if i learned to save!! 🙂- arjun
Well, you just made my point. A lot of American money is going out of this country and not back into our economy and businesses, and that is the main problem with shipping American jobs overseas as i see it. if there was ever a time when we as a country need our jobs and money here in our economy, it is now. 😀
There is a significant difference between an foreign national working here in the US sending money back home for their family and those actually living and working in a foreign country working for US companies.
In the first, these individuals need to keep a portion of what they earn to live here in the US, therefore what they make is taxed and a portion is still spent in our economy.
In the later, yes, the money is flowing out of our economy to the foreign economy.
July 29, 2010 at 9:52 am
In the later, yes, the money is flowing out of our economy to the foreign economy.
And the latter as you state, is the off-shoring of American jobs, and that is what I feel is contributing to the current ills of our economy. It is not the only thing wrong with our terrible economy nowadays, but it is a contributing factor and it needs to end.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
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