Point/Counterpoint-Certifications
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I guess I'm not talking from any great depth of experience here but I'll add my two-penneth anyway.
Up until two years ago I was in the hairdressing insdustry before starting on my NT4 MCSE. After getting my first three exams I got my first position in IT on Helpdesk for a small software house. Within three months the existing sys admin left and I put myself forward for the position. Although I knew I was getting in over my head, this was a small company (30 desktops, 6 NT servers and some UNIX test kit) and I believe you have to push yourself to achieve anything. I spent six months or so going through a pretty steep learning curve - "discovering" databases ion the process. Having completed my MCSE (with SQL 7 Admin) as one elective I did one more SQL 7 exam to add MCDBA to my "list".
After just 14 months in IT I moved jobs into my first DBA position. Another slightly larger software house this time.
How did I get such a position in such a short time? A combination of hard work, the right attitude and some luck. The company I work for now had no real SQL Server expertise before or joined. This worked to my advantage in that they weren't able to find too many holes in my knowledge as they knew even less. However, the fact that I had achieved a good level of certification in a relatively short time, together with the move from a successful, senior position in one totally unrelated industry into IT said something about the kind of person I am (imho).
In conclusion, there is no question in my mind that having an MCDBA and MCSE halped me get this job - but for more reasons than just the letters after my name. Studying for these exams has forced me learn stuff in-depth - I'm not a great beleiver in brain dumps except as a final revision aid. The knowledge (albeit theoretical) gained whilst studying helped me at interview and since. Again, I jumped in at the deep end but that's how we develop technically and professionally.
In conclusion, I believe that certifications definitely help - particularly if you have limited experience. But they are certainly not an end in themselves, all I have done is proved what I'm capable of "given the chance". I'm sure that if I had 5-10 years experience as a DBA, my certifications, or lack thereof wouldn't make that much difference - except possibly for the Microsoft Certified Partners that need to maintain a minimum number of certificates on their staff. For me, I am still at the bottom of a long uphill learning curve, I think that attitude and an obvious willingness to learn will always go some way towards making up for limited experience - especially in smaller/less demanding companies. My only regret is that I'm not working with any senior SQL Server DBA's to learn from - still there's always SQL Server Central 🙂
For the future, I'm still chasing exams. I've recently completed Win2K Server and Network Infrastructure and I'm taking SQL 2000 admin in the next week or so. This is to give me a focus to continue learning as much as anything else. I also want to start getting to grips with some basic ASP/VBScript/XML - not because I want to move into web development but because I think this knowledge will help me become a better DBA. My company are beginning to move towards SQL 2000 so my studying for the SQL2K exams ties in quite nicely - I might even get a course or two out of my employer next year.
Incidentally, when I was job hunting earlier this year I came across several advertised positions requesting an MCSE with SQL Admin and SQL Design as electives. Surely then (depending on other exams) that's an MCSE/MCDBA ?
Well that's about it.
. . Greg
Greg M Lucas
"Your mind is like a parachute, it has to be open to work" - Frank Zappa -
I agree wholeheartedly with many of the things already said on this topic -- certifications simply prove that you have taken the time to study and pass some tests. In no way should this be viewed as a replacement for real hands-on work experience. It is quickly evident when you talk to someone who has true work experience and when you are dealing with someone who is just "book smart".
As a consultant, I view my certifications simply as a way to help get my foot in the door. If the client is looking at two candidates who look fairly equal on paper, but I happen to have an MCDBA, then perhaps that will get me the edge I need. Who knows.
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Here's a quote from one person, "certifications simply prove that you have taken the time to study and pass some tests." I'd say this person forgets that in the process of studying for the exam, one actually learns a bit more about the topic. I've got to give a thumbs up to certifications. While I hold both my MCSE and MCDBA, I can say that by stretching to pass the MCDBA, I had to learn much more about programming SQL than what I was used to. In that process, I've become better at what I do because I understand more. In the SQL 2000 exams, there's info about XML in there; I don't use it, but I'd wager that by learning enough to pass the exam --even though some may frown on it-- I understand SQL Server and as a whole, technology better.
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I wouldnt say the exams are super hard, really depends on where you're at with SQL and how much of it you use. I don't do much with merge replication or the high end XML stuff right now, so I would have to review those. Just depends on your focus at work.
Money comes with experience as much as ability. Unless you're at a pretty large company DBA's dont have peers to talk with/learn from, so we read books, do conferences, post questions here!
Andy
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I agree mostly with lua. I also believe that most people that look down on certifications are not certified (for whatever reason). Certifications will no you or your CV no harm. It can only add to whatever you have. Experience is always a plus no doubt. I do believe that anyone that is certified have the potential to be a very good DBA. Cheers
Grace
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I am currently working as both an Oracle and SQL Server DBA. I started my path to an MCSE over 5 years ago. This was when I was getting out of the Marine Corps and knew I wanted to get into "computers". I had done some small computer systems support in the military, but my introduction into the fun and fascinating world of databases what quite accidental (the SQL Server 6.5 course was the only elective that fit into my schedule at the time.)
I thought that getting my MCSE would at least open a few doors for me. I was right about opening doors and I was able to land a job working with SQL Server. I had completed 5 of the 6 required exams and then just got too busy with work and family to be bothered. I found that once I had some experience the certification started to loose some of its value to me.
I decided that my lack of a college degree was a bigger issue than any certification. I have now finished both a degree in IT and my MCSE and am working toward my OCP (Oracle). I have decided that neither a degree or certifications qualify you for a job doing anything, but they do show that you have the discipline to stick with it, and that you have at least some level of ability to learn the subject matter.
I can think of almost no situation in which a certification is a negative. Even a "paper cert" with no experience has at least demonstrated a basic grasp of concepts and an ability to learn. I'm not saying that a "paper cert" should win out over experience, but it does count for SOMETHING and may get you a chance. If there is a manager who counts certification as a negative, I know for sure that I wouldn't want to work for him/her anyway, so good riddance.
One more point that I haven't seen brought up here. While technical ability is important in hiring IT staff, personality and presentation are very importanat too. Hiring a technically brilliant jerk is always a bad move. Studies have shown that "people skills" are more highly valued than technical skills. After all you can teach technical skills, communication skills tend to be much harder to master.
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If most people are not willing to see the difficulty, this is mainly because, consciously or unconsciously, they assume that it will be they who will settle these questions for the others, and because they are convinced of their own capacity to do this. -Friedrich August von Hayek
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I like mpeterson's reply so much. I would like to know what exams you did for the SQL Server. I am also an Oracle DBA and SQL server DBA. I have got my Oracle 8 & 8i Certification and would like to get the SQL server ones. How many are they and what adivice would you give me in preparing for them. I administer 1 SQL Server 6.5 and about 12 SQL server 7.0 databases. Do you need to have gone on all the SQL server courses? I have only being on 2 SQL server courses -- DBA and Introduction .I also believe like you that certification does no harm to your career. Cheers Grace.
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Certification is probably worth it for most people, but like many of you say - it doesn't mean diddly without a brain and some experience...
As far as 'bonding' or 'required certs' goes with the IT industry turning into a simile of the CPA industry, that will NEVER happen...too many players, too many rules, too many changes too fast...
Eric Holsinger
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Ogunadeg,
There are two exams, one on administration and one on design, that are SQL specific, plus a couple other Win exams. Try this link for full details:
http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcdba/default.asp
Andy
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One more comment here. I just got a new job, which required MCSE2000 or MCDBA. At least in the requirements listed. I got the job, but I do have to get the certifications.
It's a large company and I know that this allows the upper management to have some guarentees that not only are their people good at their jobs (and compentent), but they have "proven it" by getting the certifications.
As mentioned above, certifications do not in and of themselves do anything. They allow an experienced person to prove their knowledge, and an inexperienced person to prove nothing other than they can remember and take a test (and have US$100
)Steve Jones
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I have to sound off. I try and try to avoid these discussions but they inevitably suck me in.
I have passed 22 Microsoft tests. I have all three of the premium certifications. To this day it is my belief that the tests are really good at teaching me what I don't know. When I am ready to take the test I know if I am up on a topic such as replication or whether I am "winging" it.
The tests though are never tough enough that you would fail because you didn't know replication inside and out. If, however, you went on a job site though and did not know replication fully you would definitely fail.
The certifications provide a nice reward for reading and studying. The certifications have not been mandatory for any of my jobs but it has really helped me in all of them.
Bruce Szabo, MCSE+I, MCDBA, MCSD
Bruce Szabo, MCSE+I, MCDBA, MCSD -
Good comment. The tests can teach you what you do not know, but they also let you validate what you do.
However, I do think they should be tougher.
Steve Jones
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Certification, like knowledge, is neither good nor evil in and of itself. I value my certs because they helped me in my job. I learned alot going through the process. having a cert means folks come to me and my rep grows when I give them good, right answers.
If I were hiring someone, I would ask for a closed environment demonstration of skill. Here's a problem: tell me how you would solve it. Give 3 examples. Whether someone is certified or not has no impact on their ability to answer. IF they cannot provide a reasonable answer, it's obvious they are a paper cert.
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I started out as a paper MCSE, I hate that term, I actually landed a job only because of my certification. Of course that was in the NT 4.0 era. I had no prior experience, and with no prior experience and no certifications, most employers are going to laugh and show you the door. I started on the bench repairing pc's and worked my way up to building servers, and also training in classes. While I was preparing for my MCSE, I had built my own server and connected workstations in my living room. It was quite impressive for a beginner. I practiced every kind of network senario problem I could think of. I agree, you should build your own server and work with your server as if it were in a business. Learn real world problems and the solutions to remedy them. I am now studying for my MCDBA, and plan on building a new SQL network at home. A person has to start somewhere, and a paper MCSE can actually turn out to be a a very good engineer. Without my "paper MCSE" I would still be a furniture salesperson. And thanks to my employer for giving me a chance. I know its not going to be as easy to get a job as a DBA as it was for the MCSE, but I'm hoping for an entry level position. If no one will give me one here in good ole USA then maybe I need to relocate. I think Bill Gates had a reason when he devised the certs. He started out as the little guy once, too. Remember the motto, "Where do you want to go today?"
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