PM's/Management Vs DBAs
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OK the DBA Vs Developer debate was interesting. Has anyone got any good anecdotes on DBA/Developers vs Project/Other Managers?
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This was removed by the editor as SPAM
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Ok,
I'm going in first. First of all a little of my bio.
I was a developer with a small software company with responsibility for implementing algorithms for risk management and derivatives pricing stuff. After several years doing this, I decided to change sides and went as an asset manager with a customer of the software company. Since then I have attended many projects but on the other side, eg. stating needs, deadlines, milestones and so on...
It's a strange, yet familiar but also always funny situation to see our internal or external developers behaving in a way I was behaving myself some time ago.
But I do believe that my background helps to define realistic goals and timelines for our projects. We have other 'Project Manager' which have never seen source code and how it is written. From my point of view I disavow their ability to manages software projects efficiently. I believe a good project manager must have a strong background in programming.
Anxiously awaiting other opinions
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
It depends also on what level the Project managers want to stay.
I have worked with several project managers who maintained this facade of not dealing with the day-to-day grind of actually writing code. Their meetings were more of a cheerleader type - "yeah, Team! Go!" At least they didn't create fight songs.
The other type of project manager talks with you at least once a day, finds out what your concerns are and gives you the room to solve them.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Hi Patrick,
quote:
I have worked with several project managers who maintained this facade of not dealing with the day-to-day grind of actually writing code. Their meetings were more of a cheerleader type - "yeah, Team! Go!" At least they didn't create fight songs.I think I can imagine what you mean
Don't you like those kind?quote:
The other type of project manager talks with you at least once a day, finds out what your concerns are and gives you the room to solve them.So whom do you want to work with, if you have the choice?
What I meant is, a goof project manager must know how a developer thinks and works. Sometimes this could be completely different to other people.
One example:
Back in the good old days
when i was developing, it happened that you could find me starring at some point in space for hours. When it was time to go home, I finally solved my problem and kept coding till late at night. While a project manager is more or less working 9-5 and solves his problems within that time, a developer might not have a good idea when he comes into the office and is finished with it about tea time.Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Laughing, ich haben kein problems mit der project managers.
With the cheerleaders, they are ok, as long as they listen when you have a problem. And they usually have very strong technical leads to act as a liason. Otherwise the project will have other problems.
Yes, there were many days that I was extremely happy to write 30 lines of new code for 10 hours of work.
Project managers should work the same hours as the customer and some overlap with the developers. I usually had to have meetings with the customers at least once a week - since they were paying for it I thought it was a great idea.
On my first project I attempted to be both project manager and developer - that lasted until I was buried in meetings - either with the customer or my people. Time to give up the dream.
I'm happy I'm not a project manager any more. I agree with you, to be a good one you have to understand the technology. Most of the time when you are talking with the customer you are explaining it to them. And you have to talk with your people.
I accepted one project manager position where I did not have the background, and while it was not a walk of the living dead I didn't have the control that I normally would and it ran over.
I happily went back to being DBA dude.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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And after several visits with Europeans - Germans especially - I have a rule to never, ever try to out-drink them. Not going to happen.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Hi Patrick,
quote:
And after several visits with Europeans - Germans especially - I have a rule to never, ever try to out-drink them. Not going to happen.have you ever been to Ireland?
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
I can out-drink the Irish? I doubt that also. I'll be in France later this year for a business seminar. I'll see what I can do there.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Hi Patrick,
quote:
I can out-drink the Irish? I doubt that also. I'll be in France later this year for a business seminar. I'll see what I can do there.don't get near a stuff called Pernod or other anything else made from anise!!!
Good luck for this
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
I agree with Frank. I think it's ideal if project managers do have some experience in coding. I think it better helps them understand problems that developers have!
Ireland...Mmmmm Guiness...France..Mmmm Kronenburg! Think I need a business trip somewhere.....
Clive Strong
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Yes, if the drink is green that's probably not good for me. Good advice.
I drink a single malt, but in France I'll try cognacs. I'm not sure about French beers.
Patrick
Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue
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Hi Patrick,
quote:
Yes, if the drink is green that's probably not good for me. Good advice.I drink a single malt, but in France I'll try cognacs. I'm not sure about French beers.
I'm not sure if it is green, all I remember is a taste mixture of anise and licorice. Shudder...
What about celebrating your trip to France with some great red wine?. Shouldn't give too much headache the next day.
All I remember from French beer is derived from experience I made when I was 18.
Wah, at this age everything tastes good, as long as it is cheap and you get drunk
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
We Brits have this thing called Snakebite (Lager and Cider mixed). Its magic, it makes all members of the opposite sex devastatingly attractive whilst simultaneously turning you into superman.
I believe there is a thing called Black Velvet (Guiness and Cider) has a similar effect but my memories a bit dim on this one.
I'll stick to ginger beer and ribena.
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Hi David,
quote:
We Brits have this thing called Snakebite (Lager and Cider mixed). Its magic, it makes all members of the opposite sex devastatingly attractive whilst simultaneously turning you into superman.if I remember right, it works until you stand up
Could it be we're slightly off-topic
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url]
Don't you like those kind?
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