July 15, 2011 at 12:43 pm
SSC Rookie,
Trying to remain respectful here but I wonder if you have any idea of what reality is...?
Corporations will go the cheaper route whether or not their profits are down. No one can depend on the board of a Corporation to "do the right thing for my country". They are in it for the MONEY and could care less if their neighbor's kids starve.
If we all stepped back and let the corporations do what they want, we'd have sewers in our back yards and have to wear gas masks when going outside.
Only government involvement is going to stop this trend of greed.
July 15, 2011 at 12:50 pm
billiam (7-15-2011)
SSC Rookie,Trying to remain respectful here but I wonder if you have any idea of what reality is...?
Corporations will go the cheaper route whether or not their profits are down. No one can depend on the board of a Corporation to "do the right thing for my country". They are in it for the MONEY and could care less if their neighbor's kids starve.
If we all stepped back and let the corporations do what they want, we'd have sewers in our back yards and have to wear gas masks when going outside.
Only government involvement is going to stop this trend of greed.
This is not completely true. When you look at the American spirit, those children will rise up to make computer warfare on these types of companies. You see it today with must of these security attacks done mainly by youth who think that they are leading a revolution.
July 15, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Craig,
Are you will willing to work 12-15 hours a day for $600 a month? The chances are that your mortgage or rent alone costs more than $600 a month. Shall we move into the worst section of town and live in a house that has virtually no roof to lower our salary and keep jobs here?
I made $45K a year working for federal government in 1995. Since then, my salary has gone up and down like a volley ball, depending on where I live and the job market. The job I has before this one paid me $83K. I'm not back to less than $45K. So, should I be happy that I make the same amount of money in my profession after 15 years? Would you be happy? Especially since the cost of everything has virtually doubled in 15 years?
I still like the idea of you trying to live on $600 per month. More power to you.
July 15, 2011 at 12:59 pm
billiam904
Craig,Are you will willing to work 12-15 hours a day for $600 a month? The chances are that your mortgage or rent alone costs more than $600 a month. Shall we move into the worst section of town and live in a house that has virtually no roof to lower our salary and keep jobs here?
I made $45K a year working for federal government in 1995. Since then, my salary has gone up and down like a volley ball, depending on where I live and the job market. The job I has before this one paid me $83K. I'm not back to less than $45K. So, should I be happy that I make the same amount of money in my profession after 15 years? Would you be happy? Especially since the cost of everything has virtually doubled in 15 years?
I still like the idea of you trying to live on $600 per month. More power to you.
You need to move to a city that is not dying in this economy.
July 15, 2011 at 1:04 pm
My reality is what I can make it and believe me I have had a lot of realities in the past 20 years.
I agree that Corporation will go the cheap route whenever they can. You are also correct that if all corporations are left to do what they want could have the scenario that you describe. However, there is a happy medium out there. Watch them invest in technology and technical people if they think they can make more than the competition. That is where we come into play.
I only present you a theory the pendulum is swinging back to what our industry looked like in 1990’s. Ask a venture capitalist if they would like to invest in a new technology company and see what they say.
I actually believe that American Ingenuity will drive us forward. All we need to do is be in a position to catch the wave.
If that does not work out, then I have been trained by the government to clean toilets enough to pass inspection, so I at least I have that to fall back on.
July 15, 2011 at 1:05 pm
J Thaddeus Klopcic (7/15/2011)
$50k - $75k plus nice benefits isn't enough? Sorry -- our systems can't spin gold from straw.
$50K is peanuts for the kind of competency and experience level needed for a quality software engineer.
But yeah, even really good ones might work for that if the economy is bad enough. Nowadays the only people making really big bucks are government employees.... regardless of their competency.
The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival.
July 15, 2011 at 1:08 pm
michael
If that does not work out, then I have been trained by the government to clean toilets enough to pass inspection, so I at least I have that to fall back on.
I love that you you have something to fall back on....Literally!:-D
July 15, 2011 at 1:27 pm
In the 90's when I worked for the government, it was the incometant ones who got the raises and promotions. I was in a 3-member team and I was the middle person. The person above me spent his entire day cleaning his desk and bitching about how messy mine was. The guy under me spent his day kissing ***. I got a bad review one year citing that I was working too much and that if I couldn't get my job done in 8 hours a day, that there was a problem... Now, the guy who was above me is retired on a government pension and the guy below me runs the agency. I left because I couldn't take the bulls**t. I have often wished that I had stayed because now, I would be retired with a government pension too but I would have had to be committed to a mental institution if I had stayed.
July 15, 2011 at 1:35 pm
billiam904 (7/15/2011)
Craig,Are you will willing to work 12-15 hours a day
No.
for $600 a month?
If beers cost a buck at the bar and my rent was $150/month with $25/month in food? Yeah, that seems reasonable. However they don't, so, no. I'm also greedy. I personally want every dime I can get my hands on. I'm part of the problem and I don't expect to change. Doesn't mean I need the government to come in and protect me, I'm just going to make sure I'm worth more than they are.
I made $45K a year working for federal government in 1995. Since then, my salary has gone up and down like a volley ball, depending on where I live and the job market. The job I has before this one paid me $83K. I'm not back to less than $45K. So, should I be happy that I make the same amount of money in my profession after 15 years? Would you be happy? Especially since the cost of everything has virtually doubled in 15 years?
Thus my comment about our economy. Our econ was exploding due to a long rise, which even 9/11 barely dented. The housing market had to collapse to actually reset the market and inflation. Should you be happy? No. Does that make a difference? No. $45k/year after 15 years in the industry means you really need to move or change jobs... or pick up the new skills necessary to get back on top of the game. That's what most low-IIs make a few years in.
Which is entirely my point. High School teachers can make that in good areas and they've done 6 years of school to even try... and put up with 30 screaming children constantly. What has that level II done, watched some videos and read a few books?
I still like the idea of you trying to live on $600 per month. More power to you.
I wouldn't bother. My unemployment pays me more, and I live in one of the worst states for unemployment. But that's besides the point.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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July 15, 2011 at 2:08 pm
>> you really need to move or change jobs... or pick up the new skills necessary to get back on top of the game. That's what most low-IIs make a few years in.
<<
At the moment, it is safer to stay at the job I am at. None of my old contacts are hiring either.
I can't really move because I own a home without a mortgage here and my wife would rather forget my name than move. LOL. After 9/11, I saw the programming jobs go farther south for about a year. But, there was no outsourcing going on then, at least not as widespread as now. Like you, I advises those without a job to upgrade theitr skills as it is never a bad idea. But, at age 46, with a family and full-time job, it is not as easy as I once thought it was. At the end of my workday, I'm ready for bed and do not have the brain capacity to learn anything new.
And... I am also a disabled person. So, it is 10 times easier for a non-disabled person to get a job. It is just a fact. Unlike other disabled professionals I know, I'v e been able to get and keep jobs since I became disabled in 1997 simply because of my experience and my track record. But, outsourcing makes it that much more difficult for me because there are less jobs and less employers willing to give a disabled person a shot.
July 15, 2011 at 2:12 pm
billiam904 (7/15/2011)
There needs to be some legislation that limits how much a company can outsource because they aren't eliminating the minimum wage jobs anymore, they are eliminating the middle class now. What else will we do? We can't all be politicians....
You sound like a democrat. Why not let the free market dictate who gets paid for what? Less government control is a better idea.
July 15, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Craig Farrell (7/15/2011)
If they can find the support cheaper and it is as effective, they have more money for research tools, marketing techniques, and golf fees. If we want to fix the outsourcing problem, we need to fix ourselves. We need to provide better support, or we need to start working cheaper.
To the fat cats running companies who are playing golf on the profits, most them could care less about better support. Run cheaper, irregardless of support, is what they are really after, no doubt. It is about their bottom line. An American worker just can't work as cheap as an Indian can, no way. It's not even a fair comparison to expect it. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 15, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Less government control is a better idea.
Yeah, right... lets just let the free market continue along with their corrupt CEO's continuing to line their pockets, while millions get laid off. How's that working for everyone so far?:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
July 15, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Freddie-304292 (7/15/2011)
Do outsourced workers not get treated as if they're made redundant over there in the states, they certainly do her in the UK. Why wouldn't they?
They certainly do in Canada, too...though the EI won't kick in until your severance payment dried out. Still good, then you can afford longer period of being unemployed.
July 15, 2011 at 2:56 pm
TravisDBA (7/15/2011)
Less government control is a better idea.
Yeah, right... lets just let the free market continue along with their corrupt CEO's continuing to line their pockets, while millions get laid off. How's that working for everyone so far?:-D
Politicians are not corrupt? lol what rock are you living under? When a business makes bad decisions they go out of business (unless big government steps in, prints money and bails them out!), when their CEOs commit fraud they go to jail (i.e. Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff,... etc. etc.). When government [politicians] makes bad decisions they just print more money, or raise some more taxes or pass new laws. When politcians break the law they get "censured" by their buddies and get to keep their million dollar pensions and lifetime health insurance. Even if they have to resign for being a total jerk they still get their lifetime benefits.
No, government has proven to be very poor stewards of tax dollars and the faith and trust of the people. Government produces no product, it only consumes capital from private businesses and individuals and uses it to buy votes to insure its longevity and control over evey aspect of your life.
The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival.
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