April 20, 2009 at 3:07 am
Good article!
I tend to put a copyright notice on all my scripts, and state they are distributed under the Ms-Pl License. I sort of hope people will Google 'Ms-Pl License' if they are interested in the terms. If I have based parts of my code on something previously published elsewhere, I also tend to recognise the sources I have used within the code comments. Sometimes I forget, but that is not intentional.
I think it shows a level of professionalism to give proper recognition. It shows you have claim to authorship, which can only add to your career if the code works. The License details also show you intend others to take advantage of your code.
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor they call me a communist - Archbishop Hélder Câmara
April 20, 2009 at 6:36 am
Brad, I understand the point of the license, but for scripts it just feels....like extra work. I can see selecting a license for "real" code posted on CodePlex or similar, but most scripts are just that, simple statements or automation that aren't a really huge body of work. I know the copyright is implicit, but I tend to go with an explicit model, expecting that anything I publish can be used freely unless I take time to indicate otherwise.
However, it seems like at least on SSC this is an easy fix - require the person uploading the script to select a license and include that in the description of the script.
April 20, 2009 at 6:47 am
Now that I have opened a hornet's nest, SSC is going to be revaluating its script policy to fully ensure that the code that if offers is legally useable by others.
In my editorial, I didn't specify whether I agreed or disagreed with the law, I was only addressing the law as it is written in the United States. I feel it is better to be safe than sorry, so that is why I am encouraging script writers to include a free software license with all of the code they distribute.
Brad M. McGehee
DBA
April 20, 2009 at 8:20 am
I kind of ignore the whole topic for two reasons. First, I'm pretty much never grabbing big things. Most of what I clip is little stuff like scripts and SQL clippings that is probably close to what I'd whip up if I spent a pile of my own time. Some of it is more clever than I'd produce, and I learn from it as well as save time. And that leads to my second reason, which is most of what I copy is placed out there intentionally so that others may see it. They may just be doing it to show off, but most of the time they're trying to help out and want it to be used. Occasionally you see some copyright marks, but that's pretty rare. The fact is most SQL and scripting code that's exchanged in forums and groups isn't significant enough to chase around. I have a different feel about big blocks of stuff, like entire projects or libraries you can get from Sourceforge, for example. That's worth putting a mark on, and almost always is marked. I can't tell you where the line is between these, but it's out there in the grey area I like to call Subjectiveland.
One other point: on hosted sites like SSC my first response is to turn the question on the hosts and ask what the policy is in general. While the underlying law says one thing, most people don't act that way so it's a useful service to make it easy for contributors to mark their work one way or another. To be frank, even if it gets marked folks who want to take it will do so, but it'll be a deliberate act. But adding a [cp] tag to the smilies that links to a standard copyright statement would let folks cover themselves easily and keep readers conscious of the sources they rely on.
Cris E
St Paul, MN
[font="Arial"]Are you lost daddy? I asked tenderly.
Shut up he explained.[/font]
- Ring Lardner
April 20, 2009 at 9:00 am
It's a good question and definitely needs to be considered. Not just scripts, but the forum posts are IP as well. SSC needs to have rights on those, and be protective of them, but what happens if someone posts on SSC and then someone copies that to a forum on MSDN? What if that "someone" is the author of the original post?
Copyright law can be tricky. "Fair use" isn't as straightforward as a lot of people seem to think it is.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
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November 9, 2012 at 8:46 am
What is the current policy on this site?
November 25, 2016 at 1:36 am
Great article.
Come back Brad!
November 25, 2016 at 1:46 am
It's probably even more complicated for most of us, in that the scripts we write or re-use end up being the property of the company we work for! I guess this is why the lawyers make so much money!
It also makes me worry about the power and influence of USA law abroad! Especially in this area as there is so much value now in the digital world that has no respect for borders.
November 25, 2016 at 4:28 am
Adi Cohn-120898 (4/19/2009)
There is a very big difference between writing a novel or creating a movie and writing T-SQL. It would be ridiculous if one day we’ll find out that we can’t use sys.dm_db_index_physical_stats to check fragmentation because someone wrote a script that used it and decided to copyright it. On the other hand writing my own story about Harry Potter is defiantly a violation of copyright laws. If I decide to write a story there are endless subjects to write about. If I decide on a subject there are endless ways to write about it, but when I write T-SQL script there are limited numbers of logical ways to do it.Adi
Agree, fair point
Something like Ola Hallengrens maintenance routines should probably be copyrighted
Minor things like writing a merge script definitely not
I suspect if the minor things started to get copyrighted, this site end up having to be shut down due to excessive lawyer involvement!
Just a thought though, a lot of contractors that I know of have useful code that they carry around with them (particularly DBA's)
If the company owns this, where do they stand?
- Damian
November 25, 2016 at 4:35 am
James Stover (4/18/2009)
What's a bit sad is that "borrowing" T-SQL or any other online resource is that it doesn't really help us learn better. Should job requirements say: "Must know how to Google T-SQL"? It's like the commercial imperative to do more with less and do it faster is breeding a generation of lazy (and unqualified, dare I say) IT pros.
Disagree
What's wrong with using every resource available to you to get the job done efficiently
Knowing where to go when stuck is also part of a developers role
It's no different to building up a personal repository of useful scripts - that's have quite often come from adapting the results of googling T-SQL
Googling T-SQL can also provide alternate ways to do something
- Damian
November 25, 2016 at 5:44 am
What's a bit sad is that "borrowing" T-SQL or any other online resource is that it doesn't really help us learn better.
If you copy T-SQL code from somewhere and you just use it and do not try to at least learn something from it, then it's your own fault. I find that I learn better when I read some-one else's code.
Very good editorial Brad. A person never think of these things whether you are posting or taking. I never bother with public license because I feel anyone can use my code. Never thought of it like that.
Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I am happy because I choose to be happy.
I just love my job!!!
November 25, 2016 at 5:54 am
I just realised that I posted a comment as if the is a new article and then realised it was posted in 2009. Still a very good article!!! :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I am happy because I choose to be happy.
I just love my job!!!
November 25, 2016 at 5:58 am
DamianC (11/25/2016)
James Stover (4/18/2009)
What's a bit sad is that "borrowing" T-SQL or any other online resource is that it doesn't really help us learn better. Should job requirements say: "Must know how to Google T-SQL"? It's like the commercial imperative to do more with less and do it faster is breeding a generation of lazy (and unqualified, dare I say) IT pros.Disagree
What's wrong with using every resource available to you to get the job done efficiently
Knowing where to go when stuck is also part of a developers role
It's no different to building up a personal repository of useful scripts - that's have quite often come from adapting the results of googling T-SQL
Googling T-SQL can also provide alternate ways to do something
Maybe Googling well should be a prerequisite when an applicant is considered for a job. Hahahaha!!!!:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
Manie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I am happy because I choose to be happy.
I just love my job!!!
November 25, 2016 at 6:15 am
Maybe Googling well should be a prerequisite when an applicant is considered for a job. Hahahaha!!!!:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
Recently I interviewed with a few basic generic technical questions
For the second (final) interview, I gave them a small project and a week to come up with a solution; Then present this along with considered alternatives
In theory they can google all they like and I don't have an issue with this, I just see it as part of the job
It's about proving that you can produce a good solution
- Damian
November 26, 2016 at 11:43 am
The article is most certainly still applicable, and I have a feeling it always will be.
Personally, when I post code or offer advice, it's to help people someone. I hope I have what they need, so I also hope they can use it and learn from it. If someone comes across it in the future, I hope they can learn something from it, use it or adapt it to their particular problem. I'm aware of the copyright law, but I honestly don't think it should apply to absolutely everything. After all, if the intent is to help someone, wouldn't it make sense that you'd want them to use it? I would.
The other conversation is about relying on the internet to do the job. While using Bingle is a part of the job to learn new things or figure out things we've never done before, I think the problems already mentioned are a very serious problem. How many stories have we heard (or told) over the years about people who don't know how to do the simplest things in SQL Server without help? Also, how many people just copy/paste code without understanding it? Then, when they have to maintain it, they have no idea where to start. People need to care enough to invest in themselves and understand how things work, but that's more about the person than it is the technology.
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