March 21, 2016 at 6:27 am
Dean/David. It's fair to say not all meetings are effective. On a good day that's a teaching opportunity, on a bad day it's just something to be endured. Of course I agree on ending on time, or at least making a clear decision to extend the duration and give everyone a chance to adjust calendars and take a break.
But...even if the meeting sucks and runs long, I'd argue that doesn't allow being late to the start. It's not punishing the organizer, it's punishing the other attendees!
March 21, 2016 at 7:46 am
Andy Warren (3/21/2016)
Dean/David. It's fair to say not all meetings are effective. On a good day that's a teaching opportunity, on a bad day it's just something to be endured. Of course I agree on ending on time, or at least making a clear decision to extend the duration and give everyone a chance to adjust calendars and take a break.But...even if the meeting sucks and runs long, I'd argue that doesn't allow being late to the start. It's not punishing the organizer, it's punishing the other attendees!
The trick is to be polite but firm that a meeting end time is the meeting end time as it will impinge on punctuality for the next schedule.
I've been in meetings where someone fell asleep and spilled their coffee. 3 of us offered to buy a replacement in the 1/2 time break because it was the only the smell of the spilt Expresso that was keeping us awake!
God save us from anything with "workshop" in the title. It means "meeting of indeterminate length".
Then there is the curse of the meetings where the most interesting thing is the sugary sweets. Reaching the end of a packet to find "may have a laxative affect" written on the packet:hehe:
March 21, 2016 at 8:13 am
When I was in the military a saying I often encountered was "if you're not five minutes early, you're ten minutes late." Point was to be on-time. Especially if the meeting was to brief a commander, because a commander's time was more valuable than others.
Also agree that chronic lateness is a sign of disrespect.
March 21, 2016 at 8:53 am
I was on a project where the project manager had a weekly two hour status meeting. Her meetings perpetually started 10-15 minutes late because she was futzing with the computer and projector trying to get it set up. She got made when I left the meeting on time because she was running over. Another time, she had us plugging phones in the wall for a conference call; I was not familiar with that conference room and which were phone jacks.
If it takes one 10-15 minutes to set up a projector, get to the room 10-15 minutes before the meeting starts! Be ready to start the meeting on time.
March 21, 2016 at 9:41 am
Professionally, I am on time more than 95% of the time. The exceptions are almost always beyond my control - back to back meetings that go over for example. However where I work, the exception is to be on time, almost everybody strolls in when convenient for them. Directors tend to be late more often than not. As a result, a lot of meetings are a complete waste of time.
Personally I am early unless my SO is invited, in which case we are almost always late. She gets it from her mother, who fits something I read recently. Not sure if it was here or elsewhere. Basically the story was that the family lies to an individual about what time things start in an attempt to get the person there on time. My wife's mother is like that, and now my wife is starting to need that as well. I don't get it! I coach a lot of youth sports, and I expect kids to be on time to practice and games, yet unless I bring my kids they are as late as everyone else! Sigh.
I can deal with people being late, but what is really frustrating is when managers show up late, and everyone is waiting on them, and of course trying to fill the silence. Yet you hear them start complaining about us wasting time talking about the weather! Um, we would have been talking about work had you been on time!
Dave
March 21, 2016 at 9:56 am
dean.giberson 64357 (3/21/2016)
Nice post, I will start by saying meetings in general are a waste of time since most spend them texting or checking email on their phone anyway.
Agreed. I'd hold all meetings in a Faraday cage if I had my way.
I'm another person who gets very annoyed when people are late to things. There was a DBA at an old workplace who turned up late to meetings as a matter of pride. I think he'd read some PUA manual that advised turning up late in order to stamp your authority on the suckers left waiting for you. In fact he just looked shambolic and faintly pitiable.
March 21, 2016 at 10:15 am
David.Poole (3/21/2016)
If you are going to insist on punctuality of start then I'm going to insist on punctuality of the end, a clear objective to the meeting and an agenda. If meetings overrun then that has a knock on affect for any subsequent meetings.
Yes.
David.Poole (3/21/2016)
How much advanced warning do you give for a meeting? I've had someone get very upset that I was late for a meeting for which they sent out the invite during my lunch and expected me to attend immediately after my lunch.
Yes.
David.Poole (3/21/2016)
I've had people who attempt to triple book me for meetings on the basis that "it is hard to get a slot in your diary so I just booked it, you are a critical attendee"!
Yes.
David.Poole (3/21/2016)
Then there are people who think I have a teleport system to get me between offices 2 miles apart.
Yes.
David.Poole (3/21/2016)
Worst of all are those people whose body seems to consist of 99% bladder and they can't understand that this is not a standard fit issue on a middle aged bloke.
Yes.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 21, 2016 at 11:24 am
Gary Varga (3/21/2016)
call.copse (3/21/2016)
...I've lost count of the number of films I've seen at the cinema where I re-watch on the TV and realise 'Ahh, that is what that was all about.' when I actually catch the opening scene. Paying the extortionate sums involved these days for such tickets and missing the start does get right on my wick...As someone who arrives in plenty of time so has sat through the trailers (enjoyed) and the adverts (total tedium) I can say that I find it totally annoying that cinemas let people in late. Should I really have to put up with being disturbed once the film has started? This is one of the two reasons that I rarely go to the cinema anymore. (The other being people who think that it is their right to talk all the way through the film - and cinemas that let them).
Fear not, the wah!mbulance is on it's way...
March 21, 2016 at 11:35 am
call.copse (3/21/2016)
Gary Varga (3/21/2016)
call.copse (3/21/2016)
...I've lost count of the number of films I've seen at the cinema where I re-watch on the TV and realise 'Ahh, that is what that was all about.' when I actually catch the opening scene. Paying the extortionate sums involved these days for such tickets and missing the start does get right on my wick...As someone who arrives in plenty of time so has sat through the trailers (enjoyed) and the adverts (total tedium) I can say that I find it totally annoying that cinemas let people in late. Should I really have to put up with being disturbed once the film has started? This is one of the two reasons that I rarely go to the cinema anymore. (The other being people who think that it is their right to talk all the way through the film - and cinemas that let them).
Fear not, the wah!mbulance is on it's way...
...I can hear it over the dialogue!!! 😛
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 21, 2016 at 12:35 pm
I try to get my wife out the door 45 minutes before a movie start time. I can't seem to get it through my wife's head that it takes a bit over 30 minutes to get down the mountain to the cinema, then you may have a short line for tickets, and a line for concessions, etc. I like movie trailers, though thoroughly agree that adverts for cars, etc. really have no place at the movies in my ever so humble opinion.
But what I really hate is businesses that don't open when they say, or close far earlier than posted hours without explanation. Last week I was way early to work and wanted to pick up a bagel and hot chocolate. I went to a newish coffee house who advertises their hours as 7am-7pm. I got there at 7:20 and the front door was still locked. They opened it as I was getting back in to my car, but I went inside anyway.
I was the only one there and it took them 20 minutes to slice and toast a bagel and to make a hot chocolate. The odds of me revisiting them for something before work are very slim.
I had a boss problem where he would schedule meetings for 8am or 4:30pm when my work day was 8-5. I set Outlook with a meeting every day from 8-9 and 4-5, marked as private (very important step!), and he never again was able to schedule a meeting for the moment that I walked in to the office. I haven't had that problem at my current gig. If I had a fixed lunch hour, I expect I'd do something similar to defend it and prevent getting jumped by meetings on my return.
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[font="Arial"]Knowledge is of two kinds. We know a subject ourselves or we know where we can find information upon it. --Samuel Johnson[/font]
March 21, 2016 at 12:56 pm
^ My wife is the "arrive right on time but not early" type, which means we are typically 10-15 minutes late. Me, on the other hand, always try to arrive early for just about everything because I absolutely hate being late. Even for something that is not enjoyable.
Regarding the movie-late-arrivers, I have to agree with Gary... I hate when the doors open in a theater after the movie has started. And the late arrivers always seem to have to walk past me to find open seats. And then there are the late arrivers who use their cell phone flashlights to find open seats, that's a completely different category.
Send the wah!mbulance my way, too.
March 21, 2016 at 1:31 pm
I'm trying to think of productive meetings
1. Cigarette break. You find out what is really going on in the company and will probably meet people from both ends of the corporate hierarchy. If you don't smoke take a lighter
2. Friday pub lunch meeting. Again you get the warts and all but what is said in the pub stays in the pub. People requiring advice buy the round. People requiring quality advice buy something better than Budweiser.
3. Water cooler. Again, the pulse of the organisation beats strongest near the caffeine supply.
4. Scrums and stand ups
5. Retrospectives
6. Concept briefings where business users can be coerced into saying what they really want. Actually invite them to meeting #2 or evening equivalent. Photographic evidence is always useful.
That is pretty much it unless you count conferences. Personally I put these in their own category.
March 22, 2016 at 1:41 am
David.Poole (3/21/2016)
I'm trying to think of productive meetings1. Cigarette break. You find out what is really going on in the company and will probably meet people from both ends of the corporate hierarchy. If you don't smoke take a lighter
2. Friday pub lunch meeting. Again you get the warts and all but what is said in the pub stays in the pub. People requiring advice buy the round. People requiring quality advice buy something better than Budweiser.
3. Water cooler. Again, the pulse of the organisation beats strongest near the caffeine supply.
4. Scrums and stand ups
5. Retrospectives
6. Concept briefings where business users can be coerced into saying what they really want. Actually invite them to meeting #2 or evening equivalent. Photographic evidence is always useful.
That is pretty much it unless you count conferences. Personally I put these in their own category.
Where do I sign up??? :satisfied:
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 22, 2016 at 5:02 am
BenWard (3/21/2016)
If you've got a meeting for 5 people, being paid an average of £25/hour, and one is 15 mins late, the company has just lost, not just £25, but the hour of work that those people would have accomplished if they were at their desks. It may not sound like a lot but in an economic climate where a company's stationary budget won't allow for pens that cost more than 15p it's not so small.Multiply that by 10 meetings a day with at least 1 person turning up late and the company is loosing an entire FTE to punctuality.
And then there are the whole organisation briefings where 80 people are in the room on time and the director turns up 15 minutes late.
No wonder the organisation failed.
March 22, 2016 at 6:06 am
Grumpy DBA (3/21/2016)
^ My wife is the "arrive right on time but not early" type, which means we are typically 10-15 minutes late. Me, on the other hand, always try to arrive early for just about everything because I absolutely hate being late. Even for something that is not enjoyable.Regarding the movie-late-arrivers, I have to agree with Gary... I hate when the doors open in a theater after the movie has started. And the late arrivers always seem to have to walk past me to find open seats. And then there are the late arrivers who use their cell phone flashlights to find open seats, that's a completely different category.
Send the wah!mbulance my way, too.
To be fair you don't dislike me being late as much as I do. If we do sneak in late it will be to the open seats, which will tend to be on the edge. (They are always allocated these days but normally there's a few left with easy access and you can ignore the allocated numbers).
I will admit it is hard to get the rest of the day put to bed in time with kids and multiple jobs. I have got some mitigating strategies - I normally say the film is starting at 20:00 if it starts at 20:30 say. That can work if she doesn't check 😉
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