October 29, 2008 at 6:54 am
Someone has been hired as a general dba, do typical dba duties as well as write some stored procedures and do a few queries when needed, they have one years previous experience.
The person sits down next to you and pulls out a couple of t-sql manuals and sticks them on the desk, because although they can write stored proc's, functions etc having studied it, but they still need to look at a book to make sure they are doing it right because of limited experience in the real world, but they will get there in the end with a bit of trial and error.
What impression is someone giving you if they do this? Does it look bad? Or is it just sensible and/or common? Is their shame in it?
I'm interested in peoples opinions on this.
Regards,
D
October 29, 2008 at 7:04 am
What is the requirement of this position? Was it specified the position required certain number of years of DBA experiences? It seemed to me you just hired a 'Junior' DBA.
October 29, 2008 at 7:18 am
Thanks for getting back, the whole question is rhetorical. Lets say the job was advertised just as SQL DBA, and in the interview a few technical questions were asked regarding backups/restores, index maintenance etc and all were answered correctly. In other works general maintenance etc is fine, its just the t-sql is a bit limited.
October 29, 2008 at 7:25 am
This is just sensible and common....
Everybody needs a reference and it doesn't make any difference if they use the SQL Index in Mgmt Studio or have a book on their desk. I've been writing realtively complex SQL for years and I still need reminders about what position certain arguments are in or what the right phrasing is for DateName functions...
Plus, you hired a shorty...what did you really expect?
October 29, 2008 at 7:49 am
It would seem that they don't know a lot of T-SQL, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't learn it or aren't a good DBA. plenty of people use the GUI and they're successful, limited in my opinion, but still they can do the job.
Chances are they haven't been asked to do much. If they're using manuals, like Learn SQL Server in 20 hours, I'd be worried. If it's Inside SQL Server or Itzik's book, I'm not so concerned.
I do look up syntax all the time. I can't necessarily remember which parameter is which for datepart or cast, and I don't think that's a problem. I know what they do, just forget the ordering at times.
October 29, 2008 at 7:54 am
Thanks for getting back everyone, the answers are interesting and I'd like to hear from more people, however one question remains, what is a 'Shorty'?
October 29, 2008 at 8:11 am
Books Online is one of my favorites (online or local), I personally don't think there's any harm in it
It is unfortunate SSMS doesn't have great IntelliSense (even in SSMS 2008), otherwise one doesn't have to remember the order or the correct syntax
I think a DBA is judged from more than just T-SQL statements
This is from a SQL Developer (~3 years) and DBA (~2 years) perspectives, and continues to enjoy and love the DBA role, and learning everyday still
October 29, 2008 at 9:49 am
Duran (10/29/2008)
The person sits down next to you and pulls out a couple of t-sql manuals and sticks them on the desk, because although they can write stored proc's, functions etc having studied it, but they still need to look at a book to make sure they are doing it right because of limited experience in the real world, but they will get there in the end with a bit of trial and error.
I used to have 4 or 5 books on my desk at my last job, and I referred to them quite often. Now that I work from home I've got at least 8 SQL reference books either on my desk or on the bookshelf behind the desk.
The product's too large to have everything memorised these days.
Personally, if a person is referring to books then I'm very impressed. I've worked with too many people who were convinced they knew everything they needed and refused to pick up a book (or open books online for that matter)
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 29, 2008 at 10:02 am
I've been working with SQL Server for about 12 years now. I use BOL regularly. I also have a portable library in my car with about 8 SQL Server books. Why in the car? So I have them when at work or home.
October 29, 2008 at 10:07 am
Personally, if a person is referring to books then I'm very impressed. I've worked with too many people who were convinced they knew everything they needed and refused to pick up a book (or open books online for that matter)
Here, here. I agree. Too many people don't know what they don't know. That's probably more important than knowing what you know.
October 29, 2008 at 3:45 pm
A "shorty" is a 'youngin', a 'junior', or someone who doesn't have a lot of experience...
October 29, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Heh... I've been doing SQL for almost 13 years... at least he used books... I still write the answers on my shirt sleeve. 😛
Nah... seriously... breaking out the books is the sign of a great DBA to come.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 30, 2008 at 11:38 am
I've been a SQL Server DBA since July 2001. Besides using the BOL, my desk has:
Ken Henderson's The Guru's Guide to Transact-SQL
- fantastic book. I find myself using the "Undocumented" section frequently
O'Reilly Press's SQL Tuning
Gunderloy, Jorden, & Tschanz's Mastering Microsoft SQL Server 2005
Brian Kelly's Start to Finish: Guide to SQL Server Performance Monitoring
And:
The Best of SQLServerCentral.com 2002
The Best of SQLServerCentral.com - vol. 3
I even have the SQL Server 2000 System Table Map and the SQL Server 2005 System Views Map on my desk.
Lastly, I have bookmarked SQLServerCentral.com and Tek-Tips.com
As someone else stated, SQL Server is a big product...I don't know or use everything that it is capable of. When I get stuck on something new or infrequently used, I have the resources to refer to and hopefully find my answers.
Sometimes I've even used the books to back up my decisions to management.
-SQLBill
October 31, 2008 at 7:40 am
I've been working as a sql developer /junior dba for 16 months and constantly
look over BOL and read as many books as I can on when I'm off work or on the weekends.
I believe that if your not learning from books, senior dba etc...especially when
your just starting out then then you've already set your self up for failure.
October 31, 2008 at 8:04 am
And if you're not learning from books, mentors or others when you are the senior DBA then either you know everything (which is unlikely) or you think you know everything.
The latter is a recipe for eventual disaster.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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