March 1, 2011 at 6:25 am
amenjonathan (2/28/2011)
So it boils down to semantics. I worded my question wrong. lol The intent is still the same. You know what I am getting at. That's the real debate here, not that I messed up the wording of the question.It still stands if you gave any of those answers, G, it would be a negative mark in an interview. Doing a job is not just the technical aspects, but also social, as in can you admit when you're wrong (and even worse do you come across as arrogant). This applies one hundred fold in an IT or other similarly 'intelligent' industry. Much easier to work as a team when people are: not pointing fingers at each other, acting like they're better than everyone else, honest and forthcoming with their mistakes. How is that political? Sounds exactly opposite.
Anyway agree to disagree if you can't agree with the reasoning. The debate is a dead horse.
It's pretty dead, that's for sure.
It's nice that you can admit that you are incapable of error and I'm incapable of rational thought. And, yes, I worded that EXACTLY the way I intended to.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 1, 2011 at 6:27 am
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
TravisDBA (2/28/2011)
Any question in an interview where your first gut feeling is "That is none of your business." Go with your gut, that is not a good question, and ask the interviewer "What is the point of asking that question?" If you don't get a good answer, terminate the interview and report it to your attorney. I did, and man, did it work.:-DAnd that's why the rest of the world thinks all US citizens like to sue the heck out of each other 😀
Nah. You guys think that because we do enjoy suing each other. We get points for originality and idiocy, even more if we do both at the same time. And if the lawsuit can make the plaintiff look like a career moron, it's even better!
American football is for pansies. Gladiatorial battles with swords and lions are for wimps. BRING ON THE LAWYERS!!!!
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 1, 2011 at 6:39 am
GSquared (3/1/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
TravisDBA (2/28/2011)
Any question in an interview where your first gut feeling is "That is none of your business." Go with your gut, that is not a good question, and ask the interviewer "What is the point of asking that question?" If you don't get a good answer, terminate the interview and report it to your attorney. I did, and man, did it work.:-DAnd that's why the rest of the world thinks all US citizens like to sue the heck out of each other 😀
Nah. You guys think that because we do enjoy suing each other. We get points for originality and idiocy, even more if we do both at the same time. And if the lawsuit can make the plaintiff look like a career moron, it's even better!
American football is for pansies. Gladiatorial battles with swords and lions are for wimps. BRING ON THE LAWYERS!!!!
And the popcorn, while you're at it 🙂
(if you're having food and games to keep the plebs happy, don't forget the food! :-D)
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
March 1, 2011 at 6:59 am
Michael Valentine Jones (2/28/2011)
amenjonathan (2/28/2011)
But then you're missing the point of the question. It's indirect. It's a personality question. The specifics of their answer are pointless. I don't care specifically what they say.You may see it that way, but I think most people correctly understand that it is a question designed to trip them up by getting them to say something bad about themselves. A big part of interviewing is finding reasons to reject people.
Everyone has shortcomings, but a job interview is not the place to put them on display.
Saying you don’t care about the answer is just self deception. Of course you care about the answer, or you wouldn’t ask it in an interview. If I told you that I drink a lot, miss a lot of work, and get violent when drunk you would obviously care about that.
The way that I have been asked about personality traits is something like:
"List 3 personality traits about you that you need to work on and how do you work on them?"
I have always inferred that these would be work-related and not non-work-related personality flaws. Although, personality flaws can cross over.
I have a pat answer for this and it usually passes the smell test for the interviewer.
I once joked that I could list only two because, being nearly perfect, I only had two.
The interviewer immediately replied:
"Well, I know what the first one is, what's the second"?
We hit it off after that and I was offered a job a week later.
At least in the early stages, interviewing is a game. It's important to bring a sense of humor to it and to understand that the interviewer is looking for a reason to NOT hire you rather than a reason to hire you.
The second interview is where it gets less like a game because they are looking for reasons TO hire you.
March 1, 2011 at 7:16 am
OCTom (3/1/2011)
Michael Valentine Jones (2/28/2011)
amenjonathan (2/28/2011)
But then you're missing the point of the question. It's indirect. It's a personality question. The specifics of their answer are pointless. I don't care specifically what they say.You may see it that way, but I think most people correctly understand that it is a question designed to trip them up by getting them to say something bad about themselves. A big part of interviewing is finding reasons to reject people.
Everyone has shortcomings, but a job interview is not the place to put them on display.
Saying you don’t care about the answer is just self deception. Of course you care about the answer, or you wouldn’t ask it in an interview. If I told you that I drink a lot, miss a lot of work, and get violent when drunk you would obviously care about that.
The way that I have been asked about personality traits is something like:
"List 3 personality traits about you that you need to work on and how do you work on them?"
I have always inferred that these would be work-related and not non-work-related personality flaws. Although, personality flaws can cross over.
I have a pat answer for this and it usually passes the smell test for the interviewer.
I once joked that I could list only two because, being nearly perfect, I only had two.
The interviewer immediately replied:
"Well, I know what the first one is, what's the second"?
We hit it off after that and I was offered a job a week later.
At least in the early stages, interviewing is a game. It's important to bring a sense of humor to it and to understand that the interviewer is looking for a reason to NOT hire you rather than a reason to hire you.
The second interview is where it gets less like a game because they are looking for reasons TO hire you.
First flaw, "I'm far to self-critical". Wait for "and what's second", reply, "That's all. There isn't anything else." 🙂
I'll never be hired by certain people, but they're the ones I wouldn't want to work for in the first place. Fortunately, 97.5% of the world's population don't fall into that category.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 1, 2011 at 7:23 am
CirquedeSQLeil (2/28/2011)
Worst / strangest question was "how many of _______ can fit in a bus?" The interviewer wanted to argue with my answer - which I thought was somewhat bizarre.
If the question he wanted to argue was: "How many clowns can we fit in a bus?", then that would be bizarre.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 1, 2011 at 7:23 am
GSquared (3/1/2011)
First flaw, "I'm far to self-critical". Wait for "and what's second", reply, "That's all. There isn't anything else." 🙂
I'm going to use that one in my next interview (whenever I will have one). 😀
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
March 1, 2011 at 7:32 am
amenjonathan (2/28/2011)
So it boils down to semantics. I worded my question wrong. lol The intent is still the same. You know what I am getting at. That's the real debate here, not that I messed up the wording of the question.It still stands if you gave any of those answers, G, it would be a negative mark in an interview. Doing a job is not just the technical aspects, but also social, as in can you admit when you're wrong (and even worse do you come across as arrogant). This applies one hundred fold in an IT or other similarly 'intelligent' industry. Much easier to work as a team when people are: not pointing fingers at each other, acting like they're better than everyone else, honest and forthcoming with their mistakes. How is that political? Sounds exactly opposite.
Anyway agree to disagree if you can't agree with the reasoning. The debate is a dead horse.
Yes, it does come down to semantics. How could it not? The whole point, from the beginning, is I don't like the question as you posed it. It's been semantics right from the start.
When you ask a question, you're hoping the person is telepathic/intuitive and can figure out what you really want without you having to say it, per your own statements. As a trait in a manager, that's definitely in my top 10 list of characteristics I really, really, really don't want. So, you'd never hire me, and I'd never want to work for you. We agree on that.
When I ask a question, I want an answer to the precise question. Just like when I want a specification for a software solution, I want it to say exactly what it's really supposed to do. I prefer precision, you prefer telepathy/intuition. You'd hate to work with me, and I'd hate to work with you. Again, we completely agree.
Yes, my answers would be a negative mark in an interview with you. That's a good thing, because we would obviously be completely incompatible if we tried to work together. My replies have been positive marks in every interview I've allowed to progress that far. The people I would want to work with like my sense of humor. You don't. So again, "failing" that part of the interview is a good thing.
In summary, your question accomplishes exactly what you want it to, which is it screens for people who would hate to have you as a manager. Problem solved.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 1, 2011 at 7:42 am
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/28/2011)
Worst / strangest question was "how many of _______ can fit in a bus?" The interviewer wanted to argue with my answer - which I thought was somewhat bizarre.We all know, as with every question in this industry, that the only correct answer is:
It depends.
Funny enough, that was part of my answer - and the interviewer was vehemently arguing it. Not all buses are created equal - too many variables.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 1, 2011 at 7:52 am
CirquedeSQLeil (3/1/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/28/2011)
Worst / strangest question was "how many of _______ can fit in a bus?" The interviewer wanted to argue with my answer - which I thought was somewhat bizarre.We all know, as with every question in this industry, that the only correct answer is:
It depends.
Funny enough, that was part of my answer - and the interviewer was vehemently arguing it. Not all buses are created equal - too many variables.
There are persistent rumors that some employers in the US just go through the motions of posting jobs and interviewing local applicants, whatever minimal number is required by the Department of Labor before offshoring a contract. I'm not saying the rumors are commonly true, I'm just saying the rumors are persistent. I don't know why some people think that way ...
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 1, 2011 at 7:56 am
Eric M Russell (3/1/2011)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/1/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/28/2011)
Worst / strangest question was "how many of _______ can fit in a bus?" The interviewer wanted to argue with my answer - which I thought was somewhat bizarre.We all know, as with every question in this industry, that the only correct answer is:
It depends.
Funny enough, that was part of my answer - and the interviewer was vehemently arguing it. Not all buses are created equal - too many variables.
There are persistent rumors that some employers in the US just go through the motions of posting jobs and interviewing local applicants, whatever minimal number is required by the Department of Labor before offshoring a contract. I'm not saying the rumors are commonly true, I'm just saying the rumors are persistent. I don't know why some people think that way ...
Well, happily I wasn't chosen for that particular one. But I know who was and I know that it was a friend of the interviewer. A little bias and method to eliminate competition so the friend can get the job also seems to be a common practice.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
March 1, 2011 at 9:27 am
CirquedeSQLeil (3/1/2011)
Eric M Russell (3/1/2011)
CirquedeSQLeil (3/1/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/28/2011)
Worst / strangest question was "how many of _______ can fit in a bus?" The interviewer wanted to argue with my answer - which I thought was somewhat bizarre.We all know, as with every question in this industry, that the only correct answer is:
It depends.
Funny enough, that was part of my answer - and the interviewer was vehemently arguing it. Not all buses are created equal - too many variables.
There are persistent rumors that some employers in the US just go through the motions of posting jobs and interviewing local applicants, whatever minimal number is required by the Department of Labor before offshoring a contract. I'm not saying the rumors are commonly true, I'm just saying the rumors are persistent. I don't know why some people think that way ...
Well, happily I wasn't chosen for that particular one. But I know who was and I know that it was a friend of the interviewer. A little bias and method to eliminate competition so the friend can get the job also seems to be a common practice.
When it comes to business or politics, there usually is method behind what seems madness.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
March 1, 2011 at 9:48 am
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
TravisDBA (2/28/2011)
Any question in an interview where your first gut feeling is "That is none of your business." Go with your gut, that is not a good question, and ask the interviewer "What is the point of asking that question?" If you don't get a good answer, terminate the interview and report it to your attorney. I did, and man, did it work.:-DAnd that's why the rest of the world thinks all US citizens like to sue the heck out of each other 😀
Yep, and that's also one of the things that attracts people to immigrate to our country too...:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
March 1, 2011 at 9:53 am
TravisDBA (3/1/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
TravisDBA (2/28/2011)
Any question in an interview where your first gut feeling is "That is none of your business." Go with your gut, that is not a good question, and ask the interviewer "What is the point of asking that question?" If you don't get a good answer, terminate the interview and report it to your attorney. I did, and man, did it work.:-DAnd that's why the rest of the world thinks all US citizens like to sue the heck out of each other 😀
Yep, and that's also one of the things that attracts people to immigrate to our country too...:-D
I now have a really twisted version of West Side Story going through my head. "I like to be in Am-er-i-ca, Everything free in Am-er-i-ca, Suing you and me in Am-er-i-ca..." It goes downhill from there....
Thanks! :hehe:
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 1, 2011 at 11:10 am
GSquared (3/1/2011)
It's nice that you can admit that you are incapable of error and I'm incapable of rational thought. And, yes, I worded that EXACTLY the way I intended to.
Now you're just being rude. Chill out man. You're not helping debate on these forums by being an ***.
You know you're exactly right. We would never get along because you have an elitist attitude. I can't stand arrogant people who think they can do no wrong.
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