February 25, 2011 at 1:01 pm
GSquared (2/25/2011)
I have a really obscure sense of humor
Obscure? Now that's a really interesting way of putting it... 😀
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
February 25, 2011 at 1:14 pm
For example, I say things like, "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it".
One of mine is "it is not rocket surgery". 😛
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February 25, 2011 at 1:59 pm
GSquared (2/25/2011)
I say things like, "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it".
Ummm, I say that exact thing to my children all the time. 😛
David
@SQLTentmaker“He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose” - Jim Elliot
February 25, 2011 at 2:46 pm
GSquared (2/25/2011)
amenjonathan (2/25/2011)
I've done a few interviews. A couple were for commercial analyst positions working directly for senior management. What I wanted to see is if the candidate was willing to fess up to flaws/failures and take responsibility for them. It's a very hard question to get a real answer for, because so many people lie. Many times it's hard to word or build a question for which the reason you're asking is not obvious. It's the only way to hedge the question to get more people to answer honestly.In one interview with a potential analyst I asked my standard question, "What are your three worst qualities". Again the real question is 'will you fess up to failure and take responsibility for it'. Anyway this candidate would not give me the truth. All her answers were like 'I'm a work-a-holic' or other 'bad traits that are really good'. So finally I asked her (not sure if this is ok) 'Ok tell me three things about yourself you think I don't want to hear'.
I kind of defeated the purpose of my own question. She had already answered that she wouldn't fess up. She didn't get the job.
Recruiters always tell you to prepare answers that are actually positive for that kind of question. I hate that game, since I'm just not interested.
Fully honest answers?
I'm chatty. Given the opportunity, I'll derail conversations and they'll go on indefinitely. I police it myself at work with reasonable effectiveness, but it can be a distration to myself and others if it gets out of hand.
I get bored easily by mindlessly repetitive work. Data entry and the like will take longer than it should, because I'll get distracted. One of the reasons I'm in the line of work I'm in is because I really hate repetitive work, so I tend to automate it and make the computer do it for me, wherever possible.
I have a really obscure sense of humor, and some people have trouble dealing with it. Mainly severe OCD cases, but a few merely neurotic types, will find my twists and perversions of the English language horrific. For example, I say things like, "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it". It's obviously a malapropistic mash-up of two different "bridge" cliches, and I find it amusing. I've had a couple of people spend prolonged periods of time trying to correct me on it, which amused me and put them in a state of semi-anguish.
You would probably accept those as honest points of negative self-assessment, which they are. BUT, I guarantee, they aren't "the worst three things about me".
Why wouldn't I tell you what I consider worse? Same reason as anyone else. Because that kind of confession needs to be private, held in absolute confidence, and otherwise "safe". A job interview is none of those things.
Do you lead into that question by stating, matter-of-factly, the three worst things about yourself? How about the three worst things about the company the person is interviewing for a position at? And I mean real issues. Things with meat to them. Not, "We demand a lot from our personnel, which is why we hold high standards in our hiring and pay top dollar. You'll be driven hard and really challenged." More like, "The CEO is sleeping with his whole secretarial pool, and everyone knows it, and it creates a lot of resentment and disaffection". Not, "I don't like to micromanage, so you'll be pretty much self-managing most of your projects, which is why we need to know that you're really self-motivated." Yes, "I won't really care what you do every day, so I won't want you to bother me with it during meetings and such. I just want you to make me look good so my annual salary reviews go well, and you'll do well to keep that in mind." (I doubt that applies to you or your company, I'm just making up examples. Don't take them at all personally.)
Would you really tell an applicant that kind of thing about yourself and your company? If not, why would you expect an applicant to turn over material to you that will cause you to disconsider him as an applicant? You're putting him into a "Prisoner's Dilema" situation, where he doesn't know if other candidates told anything real, or told "I'm a workaholic" style fables. That makes it inherently unsafe for him. If he tells the truth, will you believe it, and will you forgive it enough to not hold it against him? If so, why do you even need to know it, if it won't affect the hiring process?
Best bet in answering that kind of question is aim for just bad enough to be believed and to seem like a real answer, but not bad enough to matter. You have to know that's what most people are going to do, if they answer honestly at all. Which renders the question pointless, because the answers are just plays to keep in the game.
(Yes, I'm a bit cynical about interview questions of a variety of sorts. That offended someone enough recently that he went onto a week-long warpath against me in these forums. Maybe I should add that cynicism to my three bad traits.)
Those answers would be great. That's exactly what kind of answer I would be looking for. In the analytical group we were in, hiding errors was the easiest way for us to get in trouble, so we needed people who would bring issues to light even if the issues were created by themselves.
I also think it's fine for interviewees to ask any of the same questions. I mean they have to be happy too. The only issue would be not knowing what you could tell the person interviewing. I've never been in or given an interview where I had HR and legal with me to ask questions of.
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My SQL Server Blog
February 25, 2011 at 3:53 pm
When interviewing for my current job, one of the questions was "What first attracted you to your wife?".
Not having any clue how to answer this properly, I decided to go the honesty route and respond "Her legs!".:-)
February 25, 2011 at 3:54 pm
Well said, G-Squared! I always come prepared with a list of questions for the interviewers to see if they are on their toes as well (and to show that I'm not just an automaton). Questions that put people on their heels aren't just for one side of the deal!
February 25, 2011 at 4:07 pm
ACinKC (2/25/2011)
Well said, G-Squared! I always come prepared with a list of questions for the interviewers to see if they are on their toes as well (and to show that I'm not just an automaton). Questions that put people on their heels aren't just for one side of the deal!
Agreed. It's pretty bad to have an interviewee who doesn't have any questions for the interviewers. Makes it seem like the company has all the power in that situation, which they don't. People don't think that way anymore though it seems.
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My SQL Server Blog
February 25, 2011 at 7:29 pm
boulang (2/25/2011)
You're locked in a cell with a steel floor. At the center of the room is a pipe with massively thick walls securely welded to the floor all the way around and that's the only noticable thing there is in the cell. The only light is coming in through the bars. Inside the pipe and just out of reach of your fingers is a ping-pong ball and the hole in the pipe is just barely large enough to let the ping-pong ball in. You're given a piece of 1/4" thick 1" long piece of double braided rope and told that the ping-pong ball is attached to the key to get out and that if you can retrieve the key, you can let yourself out of the cell. How do you retrieve the key and how long will it take"How long will it take?"...depends on how full your bladder is.
See? Now why the hell can't managers figure that out? 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
February 26, 2011 at 10:20 am
GSquared (2/25/2011)
Fully honest answers?I'm chatty. Given the opportunity, I'll derail conversations and they'll go on indefinitely. I police it myself at work with reasonable effectiveness, but it can be a distration to myself and others if it gets out of hand.
I get bored easily by mindlessly repetitive work. Data entry and the like will take longer than it should, because I'll get distracted. One of the reasons I'm in the line of work I'm in is because I really hate repetitive work, so I tend to automate it and make the computer do it for me, wherever possible.
I have a really obscure sense of humor, and some people have trouble dealing with it. Mainly severe OCD cases, but a few merely neurotic types, will find my twists and perversions of the English language horrific. For example, I say things like, "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it". It's obviously a malapropistic mash-up of two different "bridge" cliches, and I find it amusing. I've had a couple of people spend prolonged periods of time trying to correct me on it, which amused me and put them in a state of semi-anguish.
Waw, we have the same "3 worst qualities" 😀
GSquared (2/25/2011)
Why wouldn't I tell you what I consider worse? Same reason as anyone else. Because that kind of confession needs to be private, held in absolute confidence, and otherwise "safe". A job interview is none of those things.Do you lead into that question by stating, matter-of-factly, the three worst things about yourself? How about the three worst things about the company the person is interviewing for a position at? And I mean real issues. Things with meat to them. Not, "We demand a lot from our personnel, which is why we hold high standards in our hiring and pay top dollar. You'll be driven hard and really challenged." More like, "The CEO is sleeping with his whole secretarial pool, and everyone knows it, and it creates a lot of resentment and disaffection". Not, "I don't like to micromanage, so you'll be pretty much self-managing most of your projects, which is why we need to know that you're really self-motivated." Yes, "I won't really care what you do every day, so I won't want you to bother me with it during meetings and such. I just want you to make me look good so my annual salary reviews go well, and you'll do well to keep that in mind." (I doubt that applies to you or your company, I'm just making up examples. Don't take them at all personally.)
Would you really tell an applicant that kind of thing about yourself and your company? If not, why would you expect an applicant to turn over material to you that will cause you to disconsider him as an applicant? You're putting him into a "Prisoner's Dilema" situation, where he doesn't know if other candidates told anything real, or told "I'm a workaholic" style fables. That makes it inherently unsafe for him. If he tells the truth, will you believe it, and will you forgive it enough to not hold it against him? If so, why do you even need to know it, if it won't affect the hiring process?
Interesting. At my next interview, I'll remember to ask the question back 🙂
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
February 28, 2011 at 3:08 am
Oddest opener - "Let's start at the beginning - where were you born?"
- how does that affect things?
- and presumably illegal on racial descrimination grounds
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” Voltaire
February 28, 2011 at 7:15 am
Koen Verbeeck (2/26/2011)
GSquared (2/25/2011)
Fully honest answers?I'm chatty. Given the opportunity, I'll derail conversations and they'll go on indefinitely. I police it myself at work with reasonable effectiveness, but it can be a distration to myself and others if it gets out of hand.
I get bored easily by mindlessly repetitive work. Data entry and the like will take longer than it should, because I'll get distracted. One of the reasons I'm in the line of work I'm in is because I really hate repetitive work, so I tend to automate it and make the computer do it for me, wherever possible.
I have a really obscure sense of humor, and some people have trouble dealing with it. Mainly severe OCD cases, but a few merely neurotic types, will find my twists and perversions of the English language horrific. For example, I say things like, "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it". It's obviously a malapropistic mash-up of two different "bridge" cliches, and I find it amusing. I've had a couple of people spend prolonged periods of time trying to correct me on it, which amused me and put them in a state of semi-anguish.
Waw, we have the same "3 worst qualities" 😀
GSquared (2/25/2011)
Why wouldn't I tell you what I consider worse? Same reason as anyone else. Because that kind of confession needs to be private, held in absolute confidence, and otherwise "safe". A job interview is none of those things.Do you lead into that question by stating, matter-of-factly, the three worst things about yourself? How about the three worst things about the company the person is interviewing for a position at? And I mean real issues. Things with meat to them. Not, "We demand a lot from our personnel, which is why we hold high standards in our hiring and pay top dollar. You'll be driven hard and really challenged." More like, "The CEO is sleeping with his whole secretarial pool, and everyone knows it, and it creates a lot of resentment and disaffection". Not, "I don't like to micromanage, so you'll be pretty much self-managing most of your projects, which is why we need to know that you're really self-motivated." Yes, "I won't really care what you do every day, so I won't want you to bother me with it during meetings and such. I just want you to make me look good so my annual salary reviews go well, and you'll do well to keep that in mind." (I doubt that applies to you or your company, I'm just making up examples. Don't take them at all personally.)
Would you really tell an applicant that kind of thing about yourself and your company? If not, why would you expect an applicant to turn over material to you that will cause you to disconsider him as an applicant? You're putting him into a "Prisoner's Dilema" situation, where he doesn't know if other candidates told anything real, or told "I'm a workaholic" style fables. That makes it inherently unsafe for him. If he tells the truth, will you believe it, and will you forgive it enough to not hold it against him? If so, why do you even need to know it, if it won't affect the hiring process?
Interesting. At my next interview, I'll remember to ask the question back 🙂
I should change my first "worst" to, "I'm nosy. What's the worst thing about you?" Get an answer, then tell them my second worst trait is I'm a major gossip and an amateur blackmailer... 🙂
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 28, 2011 at 7:31 am
amenjonathan (2/25/2011)
GSquared (2/25/2011)
amenjonathan (2/25/2011)
I've done a few interviews. A couple were for commercial analyst positions working directly for senior management. What I wanted to see is if the candidate was willing to fess up to flaws/failures and take responsibility for them. It's a very hard question to get a real answer for, because so many people lie. Many times it's hard to word or build a question for which the reason you're asking is not obvious. It's the only way to hedge the question to get more people to answer honestly.In one interview with a potential analyst I asked my standard question, "What are your three worst qualities". Again the real question is 'will you fess up to failure and take responsibility for it'. Anyway this candidate would not give me the truth. All her answers were like 'I'm a work-a-holic' or other 'bad traits that are really good'. So finally I asked her (not sure if this is ok) 'Ok tell me three things about yourself you think I don't want to hear'.
I kind of defeated the purpose of my own question. She had already answered that she wouldn't fess up. She didn't get the job.
Recruiters always tell you to prepare answers that are actually positive for that kind of question. I hate that game, since I'm just not interested.
Fully honest answers?
I'm chatty. Given the opportunity, I'll derail conversations and they'll go on indefinitely. I police it myself at work with reasonable effectiveness, but it can be a distration to myself and others if it gets out of hand.
I get bored easily by mindlessly repetitive work. Data entry and the like will take longer than it should, because I'll get distracted. One of the reasons I'm in the line of work I'm in is because I really hate repetitive work, so I tend to automate it and make the computer do it for me, wherever possible.
I have a really obscure sense of humor, and some people have trouble dealing with it. Mainly severe OCD cases, but a few merely neurotic types, will find my twists and perversions of the English language horrific. For example, I say things like, "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it". It's obviously a malapropistic mash-up of two different "bridge" cliches, and I find it amusing. I've had a couple of people spend prolonged periods of time trying to correct me on it, which amused me and put them in a state of semi-anguish.
You would probably accept those as honest points of negative self-assessment, which they are. BUT, I guarantee, they aren't "the worst three things about me".
...
Best bet in answering that kind of question is aim for just bad enough to be believed and to seem like a real answer, but not bad enough to matter. You have to know that's what most people are going to do, if they answer honestly at all. Which renders the question pointless, because the answers are just plays to keep in the game.
...
Those answers would be great. That's exactly what kind of answer I would be looking for. In the analytical group we were in, hiding errors was the easiest way for us to get in trouble, so we needed people who would bring issues to light even if the issues were created by themselves.
I also think it's fine for interviewees to ask any of the same questions. I mean they have to be happy too. The only issue would be not knowing what you could tell the person interviewing. I've never been in or given an interview where I had HR and legal with me to ask questions of.
Even though I openly stated that those are far from "the worst things about me" (which makes them a lie, effectively), and that they are cynically aimed at "playing" the interviewer, you still think, "Those answers would be great". Are you sure about that?
Here are real responses I've given to the "worst thing about you" question in real interviews:
"I hate that question. You're expected to try to lie about something that's fake-positive, like 'I have no life, so I tend to overwork', and I really don't feal like playing that game. What's your next question?"
and
"You're not my priest, so I'm going to decline to answer."
Both of those interviews resulted in job offers, so I must have done something right. All of them are delivered in a humorous tone of voice and with friendly body+facial language. Nothing hostile about them. But they don't answer the question.
The most honest answer possible to this kind of question? "I'm physically mortal, fragile, and ephemeral. I'll die someday. Before that happens, I will, at best, grow old and feeble." Trust me, it doesn't get worse than that, and it's completely true and brutally honest.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 28, 2011 at 7:36 am
Jeff Moden (2/25/2011) . . .
You're locked in a cell with a steel floor. At the center of the room is a pipe with massively thick walls securely welded to the floor all the way around and that's the only noticable thing there is in the cell. The only light is coming in through the bars. Inside the pipe and just out of reach of your fingers is a ping-pong ball and the hole in the pipe is just barely large enough to let the ping-pong ball in. You're given a piece of 1/4" thick 1" long piece of double braided rope and told that the ping-pong ball is attached to the key to get out and that if you can retrieve the key, you can let yourself out of the cell. How do you retrieve the key and how long will it take?
. . .
Are you sure you're not remembering this puzzle from one of those old Zork text adventure games?
Solution:
DROP ROPE. OPEN BOTTLE. DRINK WATER. UNZIP PANTS. FILL PIPE WITH PEE. REMOVE FLOATING BALL FROM PIPE. REMOVE KEY FROM BALL. UNLOCK DOOR.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 28, 2011 at 7:39 am
Sarah B (2/25/2011)
The strangest interview question I was ever asked was: Why do think there is such a big homeless problem in the US?I don't remember my answer because it was so spontaneous, but they liked it. I got a job there.
Let me guess, you a finalist in a Miss USA pageant?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
February 28, 2011 at 7:46 am
Eric M Russell (2/28/2011)
Jeff Moden (2/25/2011) . . .
You're locked in a cell with a steel floor. At the center of the room is a pipe with massively thick walls securely welded to the floor all the way around and that's the only noticable thing there is in the cell. The only light is coming in through the bars. Inside the pipe and just out of reach of your fingers is a ping-pong ball and the hole in the pipe is just barely large enough to let the ping-pong ball in. You're given a piece of 1/4" thick 1" long piece of double braided rope and told that the ping-pong ball is attached to the key to get out and that if you can retrieve the key, you can let yourself out of the cell. How do you retrieve the key and how long will it take?
. . .
Are you sure you're not remembering this puzzle from one of those old Zork text adventure games?
Solution:
DROP ROPE. OPEN BOTTLE. DRINK WATER. UNZIP PANTS. FILL PIPE WITH PEE. REMOVE FLOATING BALL FROM PIPE. REMOVE KEY FROM BALL. UNLOCK DOOR.
You forgot "Shake hands with those who imprisoned you... then, wash your hands." 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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