May 9, 2015 at 11:05 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Not Only a Meeting of Minds, but of Open Minds.
Best wishes,
Phil Factor
May 11, 2015 at 5:13 am
So true. There is an expression saying that for a person with a hammer everything looks like a nail.
I think that many people know that the fundamentals to being an IT professional are an understanding of basics in a broad range of areas, continual personal development and an open mind.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
May 11, 2015 at 9:05 am
Gary Varga (5/11/2015)
So true. There is an expression saying that for a person with a hammer everything looks like a nail.
Then there's the problem of people searching for the latest cool tool which, comparatively speaking, is frequently a jack hammer, hose, special connectors, compressor, and truck that you have to build first to do the same job as the hammer would have done without all the extra overhead of learning new tools to do the same job. Don't forget the hardhat, the gloves, the safety goggles, instructions on how to use it all, and the water truck you'll need to keep the dust down. 😀
Open minds need to go both ways. Sometimes the old hammer works better, faster, and cheaper than all the new stuff combined. You just have to know how to swing the hammer correctly for the nail you're aiming at and also not forget that it's just a nail that you're aiming at.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
May 11, 2015 at 10:16 am
Absolutely Jeff. Right tool for the job. Regardless of complexity OR simplicity!!!
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
May 11, 2015 at 4:05 pm
Just to be sure, Gary... that wasn't directed at you personally even though I quoted your post.
It's just that I've seen...
<MAJORRANT>
...people actually take the time to setup a whole new server (with a production license just to give an idea of the expense), take the time to setup a tool (like SSIS for example), finally figure out that they don't have anyone that knows how to actually use it and then spend a ton of money either on a useless form of training that doesn't come close to giving someone the knowledge to solve the problem or bringing in a "consultant" that doesn't know how to do much with it either (not all Consultants are like that which is why I put it in quotes), and then spend weeks trying to figure out how to do something like import a stupid little spreadsheet and unpivot the monthly data columns only to find out that they didn't do it right (it's not dynamic) and the package needs to be modified and deployed every bloody month because a new month's column was added between the previous month's column and the total column which is always at the end and so shift to external programming (like R or C# in a CLR) which also doesn't work so well because its the same people that don't actually understand the problem and then spend more time and money trying to interface it only to find out they really need someone who can program in PoSH (an appropriate abbreviation, in this case) all because I said I can have it done in a half hour if I can use the Ace drivers and was told that "Just because it can be done in T-SQL, doesn't mean it should" by people that just don't freakin' understand the KISS principle and are easily distracted by shiny objects on the horizon way too many times to listen to all the touchy feely crap about having an "open mind" that everyone wants but isn't willing to give to the DBA and then it costing the company a bloody fortune and still not get the job done.
Now, does anyone have an open enough mind to avoid all of that garbage in the future and use a hammer instead? Hmmm???
</MAJORRANT>
Heh... I feel MUCH better now. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
May 12, 2015 at 1:05 am
Don't worry Jeff. I didn't take it personally. BTW who is this Maj Orrant??? 😛
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
May 12, 2015 at 5:22 am
But, running around saying "cool I know how to spell the new toy, that makes me the expert because no else does!!!!" can impress the Pointy-Haired-Boss (especially if the tool is R, C#...) and the rest of the team ( if they havent seen the wheel being reinvented yet again).
At times the appearance of knowing something seems to count more than getting the blessed problem solved.
May 12, 2015 at 6:21 am
Yet Another DBA (5/12/2015)
But, running around saying "cool I know how to spell the new toy, that makes me the expert because no else does!!!!" can impress the Pointy-Haired-Boss (especially if the tool is R, C#...) and the rest of the team ( if they havent seen the wheel being reinvented yet again).At times the appearance of knowing something seems to count more than getting the blessed problem solved.
Good point...but I must also say that conversely we mustn't be stuck in existing ways and tools alone. Innovation does, must and should exist. There just needs to be balance.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
May 12, 2015 at 6:28 am
What a great article. I can't tell you how knowing other technologies has helped me get things done in SQL Server. I mean completely unrelated stuff and understanding how things work under the hood is a major plus. The specialization gets you to a higher level of competence in a certain area, but knowing how other things work make the advanced stuff easier. Besides, the more tools you have in your toolbox and the more tools you understand, the better you're able to pick the right one for the job. You can discern between the different types of hammers and screwdrivers and sometimes use multiple tools if they're called for.
What Jeff said about all the extra overhead really rung true for me. It reminds me to COBOL back in college. You have to haul out this huge, lumbering truck before you can move any data. Once you have it out, you can move a little or a lot, but you have to get it out and going first. It simply isn't needed for everything, but it's another tool in the toolbox. For me, that tool has gotten a bit rusty over the decades and I would really struggle to use it now, but the understanding of how it works is still applicable.
Even the lowly batch file still has a place. Like I said, the more tools you have in your toolbox, the better you're able to pick the right one for the job.
May 12, 2015 at 7:17 am
I agree. Having that wider set is extremely important. I don't really know too many guys in my field who don't have a wider reach because the job market today in my industry demands more than one language among other things as a developer.
On the other end, I have to say. We are all but tools at the end of the day. As negative as that sounds, we are but at the mercy of our leaders. If you are someone that is limited on what tools are available in your toolbox, then it's not exactly your fault if someone allows you to hit everything with a hammer. I feel some of us would blame the guy with the hammer when you should really blame the guy who assigned the hammer to the job.
Everyone has their place, specialized or not. It's how we are used that counts.
May 12, 2015 at 7:51 am
Gary Varga (5/12/2015)
Don't worry Jeff. I didn't take it personally. BTW who is this Maj Orrant??? 😛
Heh... he's the voice in my head that I normally talk to so that this stuff normally doesn't come out loud. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
May 12, 2015 at 8:05 am
Just so that no one thinks I'm a Luddite, I absolutely believe in new and better technology. For example, ROW_NUMBER and the other ranking functions are one of the best things that ever happened to SQL Server and I easily embraced it thanks to previous knowledge of things like the Tally table.
I just don't believe in change for the sake of change especially if the old way is actually the better way insofar as ease of use and preventing the spread of the "Towel of Babbel" in code. Like "Yet Another DBA" said, it's gotten to the point where the appearance of knowing something recent is more important than knowing how to get the job done. I've also seen a lot of "really cool stuff" simply fade from existence because of difficulties with use or it was actually easier to do things the old way.
To emphasize what I've been trying to get across, DBAs are frequently just one or two people having that title in a company. Many of them came up from the ranks of development and so they're not stupid. They're usually "long in tooth" and they've seen a lot of all that I've spoken of happen but are frequently outvoted by the shear din of many developers that have found the latest new toy or shinny object. Some of us are patient in that we understand both enthusiasm and new technology and let people try those new things even after recommending otherwise because you never know when you'll find a diamond in the rough. But the "open mind" thing has to go both ways. The rant I posted has happened too many times and it's time for people to start listening to the "old farts" that know that you MUST add the proverbial acid to the water or things go BOOM!
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
May 12, 2015 at 8:42 am
Jeff Moden (5/12/2015)
Just so that no one thinks I'm a Luddite, I absolutely believe in new and better technology. For example, ROW_NUMBER and the other ranking functions are one of the best things that ever happened to SQL Server and I easily embraced it thanks to previous knowledge of things like the Tally table.I just don't believe in change for the sake of change especially if the old way is actually the better way insofar as ease of use and preventing the spread of the "Towel of Babbel" in code. Like "Yet Another DBA" said, it's gotten to the point where the appearance of knowing something recent is more important than knowing how to get the job done. I've also seen a lot of "really cool stuff" simply fade from existence because of difficulties with use or it was actually easier to do things the old way.
To emphasize what I've been trying to get across, DBAs are frequently just one or two people having that title in a company. Many of them came up from the ranks of development and so they're not stupid. They're usually "long in tooth" and they've seen a lot of all that I've spoken of happen but are frequently outvoted by the shear din of many developers that have found the latest new toy or shinny object. Some of us are patient in that we understand both enthusiasm and new technology and let people try those new things even after recommending otherwise because you never know when you'll find a diamond in the rough. But the "open mind" thing has to go both ways. The rant I posted has happened too many times and it's time for people to start listening to the "old farts" that know that you MUST add the proverbial acid to the water or things go BOOM!
Just depends on the people involved. I'm a developer. I'm normally one of the guys pushing for new innovative technologies to leverage and to leverage it first.
However, due to the risks involved, especially with the ones you mentioned before, I have to be extremely cautious on what I do or recommend. This is mainly because of my ability to speak well and the trust level I have gained with certain managers over others.
Therefore, I put a lot of stock in those seniors who have been here long before me regardless of their role. I feel it's extremely important that it's not just me advocating a new idea. I make an effort to get everyone on board so it's not just me going off into the abyss. Otherwise, I'm ignoring a really great set of resources available to me that likely have a combined experience level of 50+ years or more just to do something just because it's new. So, I always ensure I go out of my way to talk with the team, including the senior DBA's that I know have been around the block and then some. 😉
May 12, 2015 at 12:57 pm
I come from an era where you had to know a bit of everything to work in IT including how to use a soldering iron and crawl through roof spaces.
I know to ask certain questions because I have been lucky that this has given me a broad range of experience. Is expertise massive knowledge of a single small area or the ability to put what you know into many different contexts?
Learning C++ made me a much better programmer even though I had never used it for anything other than my hobby projects.
Learning about the SAN made me appreciate DB tuning far more.
Learning about CIDR notification helped me understand how to ring fence resources.
My SQL knowledge is a bit out of date and I am no longer (if I ever was) an expert but I can ask questions and infer behaviours that make me effective.
I agree whole heartedly with Jeff's rant. I've lost count of the number of times mystery product 'X' is going to save the world, its people applying their skills and knowledge that will. Seasick Steve made better music with a 3 string home made guitar than many people do with a top flight custom model. People and processes over tools and technology!
May 12, 2015 at 2:52 pm
xsevensinzx (5/12/2015)
Jeff Moden (5/12/2015)
Just so that no one thinks I'm a Luddite, I absolutely believe in new and better technology. For example, ROW_NUMBER and the other ranking functions are one of the best things that ever happened to SQL Server and I easily embraced it thanks to previous knowledge of things like the Tally table.I just don't believe in change for the sake of change especially if the old way is actually the better way insofar as ease of use and preventing the spread of the "Towel of Babbel" in code. Like "Yet Another DBA" said, it's gotten to the point where the appearance of knowing something recent is more important than knowing how to get the job done. I've also seen a lot of "really cool stuff" simply fade from existence because of difficulties with use or it was actually easier to do things the old way.
To emphasize what I've been trying to get across, DBAs are frequently just one or two people having that title in a company. Many of them came up from the ranks of development and so they're not stupid. They're usually "long in tooth" and they've seen a lot of all that I've spoken of happen but are frequently outvoted by the shear din of many developers that have found the latest new toy or shinny object. Some of us are patient in that we understand both enthusiasm and new technology and let people try those new things even after recommending otherwise because you never know when you'll find a diamond in the rough. But the "open mind" thing has to go both ways. The rant I posted has happened too many times and it's time for people to start listening to the "old farts" that know that you MUST add the proverbial acid to the water or things go BOOM!
Just depends on the people involved. I'm a developer. I'm normally one of the guys pushing for new innovative technologies to leverage and to leverage it first.
However, due to the risks involved, especially with the ones you mentioned before, I have to be extremely cautious on what I do or recommend. This is mainly because of my ability to speak well and the trust level I have gained with certain managers over others.
Therefore, I put a lot of stock in those seniors who have been here long before me regardless of their role. I feel it's extremely important that it's not just me advocating a new idea. I make an effort to get everyone on board so it's not just me going off into the abyss. Otherwise, I'm ignoring a really great set of resources available to me that likely have a combined experience level of 50+ years or more just to do something just because it's new. So, I always ensure I go out of my way to talk with the team, including the senior DBA's that I know have been around the block and then some. 😉
Now THAT's what I'm talking about! Well done! It's also why I sit smack dab in the middle of the Developers at my company... It gives us all easy access to each other and we can also listen to the problems people are having/discussing. There have been many times where a couple of us are talking about a new task and someone in the group already has something that does it well or just needs a small tweak to get it there.
I should have also said that there are Developers that are also long in the tooth that DBAs should talk to. There should be no ivory towers between DBAs and Developers because we all actually have the same goal... get 'er done and get 'er done right.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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