No More NULL

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No More NULL

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Dave62 SSCertifiable Points: 7459 More actions · Answer 1

You got me all the way to the end. 😛

I guess the reason I didn't consider that it could be a joke is because of my days working with PeopleSoft in Oracle. NULLs were not allowed in the database. Number fields were zeros and string fields were " " (single space not an empty string) by default. It's been a while, I don't remember what they were doing for default dates.

I just thought SQL Server was finally going to try and do things the way Oracle has been doing it for years.

Dave

Lowell SSC Guru Points: 323518 More actions · Answer 2

All right! things are going to be so much easier now!

so when i define a table, i can decide to use my own default ie, "1" for the default value, or i can use the systems default of the default of "0" zero!

I'm so glad my developers don't have to think any more; it was hard enough training them before.

I'll call a training session right away so I can untrain them and help them unlearn how to work with nulls.

by the way, it's too bad I can only trust you all 364 days a year now. or 365 for leap years...whatever.

Lowell

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Tobar SSCarpal Tunnel Points: 4876 More actions · Answer 3

I too ran the gamut. " the idiots ... wait know why wouldn't that be good?" .. snicker snicker. Thanks Steve.

Dave62 (4/1/2010)
my days working with PeopleSoft in Oracle. NULLs were not allowed in the database. ... and do things the way Oracle has been doing it for years.

FYI: Oracle does not work that way. PeopleSoft might, or it could just have been the implementation at your company.

<><
Livin' down on the cube farm. Left, left, then a right.

OCTom SSChampion Points: 11785 More actions · Answer 4

peter.roothans (4/1/2010)
Hi,
To NULL or not to NULL. Its perhaps my IQ, but after years I'm still struggling with nulls. I consequently used to implement default values instead of NULLs, just to work around the NULL issues. Now I understand the meaning of NULL as in F=female,M=male, NULL=unknown ...
In GUI development it's often not described in the functional analysis. The example above I can handle easily with radiobuttons (female/male/unknown) but for other type of fields it's not always that obvious. If I have a blank textbox, should I return NULL or should I return '' to the database ... or should I in all scenarios put an aditional checkbox next to the textbox with the remark "unknown" although that was not specified by the analysists?
Finally, at this moment I have to write a daily procedure that loops data in a source database and updates specific fields in a destination database. If the matching key is absent in the destination database I insert. I the key exists in the destination, but no longer in the source I (logically) delete the row. In case the matching key exists in both databases I have to update, but only when some fields are changed ... and here I'm struggling again since it seems my approach does not always work ...
IF EXISTS (SELECT * FROM [dbo].
WHERE
= @key
AND
(f1 <> @f1
OR f2 <> @f2
OR ...)
BEGIN
UPDATE ...
SET modificationdate = getdate(),
...
WHERE = @key
It's about CASTS, or leading and trailing blancs (LTRIM/RTRIM), etc but also about comparing NULL with NULL or NULL with 0 or ''. So now I'm looking for a best approach to update only when something has really changed without making the error update is not executed while eg NULL has become 0.
Can someone point me a URL with best approach regarding my need?
Thanks in advance
Peter.

The last time I answered a question about sex the choices were (Y)es (No), (U)nsure.

IMO NULLS should not be allowed in a database. If the field can be NULL, it's unimportant and not needed anyway. Each field is special and should be treated as such with a valid value. Otherwise, its self-esteem could be hurt and cause troubles in the queries. Then, the field would need counselling and could even start a bad habit like returning NULLS in conditional logic.

Ronald Bruintjes SSC Enthusiast Points: 135 More actions · Answer 5

Arjun-501520 (3/31/2010)
Brilliant! you had me there for a second.

The 1/1/1900 was the trigger however. 😛

Richard M. SSCertifiable Points: 7401 More actions · Answer 6

Brilliant Steve!

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GSquared SSC Guru Points: 260824 More actions · Answer 7

I must be more awake than I think. I read the title and my first thought was, "oh yeah, it's 1 April".

My shoelaces are untied? Thanks! Wait .... 😀

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Andy Lennon SSCrazy Points: 2354 More actions · Answer 8

i also found myself getting worked up over Microsoft saying "screw standards" yet again.

Oh, Steve. You get me every year.

WayneS SSC Guru Points: 95461 More actions · Answer 9

Ralph Hightower (4/1/2010)
Ah Steve,
You had to spoil the joke with a disclaimer.
Of course, this is also an April Fool's joke and is in no way based on reality. It's entirely a work of fiction, and I hope you have a smile on your face at this point.
The joke would've been more effective without.

I'm thinking it might have been better to have had this disclaimer as the first post in the discussion.

Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

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Janus Lin SSC Enthusiast Points: 100 More actions · Answer 10

now _that_ was a good one! Good way to start the day! 😛

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 737004 More actions · Answer 11

I had to disclaim it at the end. Otherwise I suspect that there would be a lot of broken monitors, and maybe a few calls from MS legal as well. Same for the index one.

Glad you liked it. Took a little time to figure out what might be a good joke.

Question Guy SSCommitted Points: 1934 More actions · Answer 12

To quote a young lad: You very funny Doctor Jones! (but really, it was)

JKunkel Mr or Mrs. 500 Points: 566 More actions · Answer 13

You totally got me on that one. Very good, very good indeed.:-D

DEK46656 SSCrazy Points: 2111 More actions · Answer 14

You had me going there; while waiting for the forum link to respond was when I got it.

You might have had fun with a different approach: instead of no NULL, you might have tried 2 types of NULL (NULL, & NIL). A while back I was reading some articles on Codd, his rules, etc and discovered that he wanted to add a second version of NULL. One would represent the absence of data (in the record), and the other would represent the result of a skewed results set (think LEFT JOIN with missing records/fields returned).

If you had worked something up with that, well you might have caught more people.

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"if it works it's out-of-date"

sing4you Hall of Fame Points: 3034 More actions · Answer 15

Yep, you had me going. I'm glad you fessed up before I went running to a coworker with the news. :hehe: