July 13, 2009 at 5:38 am
There's always other search engines. If you are like me, you probably got more done that day without the search leading to other interesting links and before you know it an hour or has passed.
The "cloud" does worry me. If Google can have a cloud burst how about the smaller ones. Security, reliability and sustainability are still major issues with the Cloud.
Charles Proctor - One Man IT Department in Maine with Toby/Jake the IT Attack Cat. SSRS-SSIS-BI @zzubbuzz
July 13, 2009 at 5:41 am
I imagine a lot of people have been thinking about the feasibility of cloud computing given that even the "has worked fairly well" concept of web hosting has been shaken up in recent weeks.
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/07/06/the-day-after-a-brutal-week-for-uptime/
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/29/yes-rackspace-is-down-and-so-are-many-of-your-favorite-sites/
July 13, 2009 at 5:45 am
Its called putting all our eggs in a collective basket resulting in a single point of failure. We designed the internet to avoid single points of failure, that wisdom is lost now.
July 13, 2009 at 6:35 am
Sometimes its very easy to be totally stupid and not realize it. It just becomes "normal" and then it becomes "accepted practice". Here's a simple example...
Anyone who pays for cable TV is getting what? Likely a bunch of channels they will never watch, and endless commercials selling you stuff you don't want and likely do not need. So think about that...
You are paying someone to come into your home to sell you useless stuff you don't want and don't need, while at the same time, you are getting maybe even hundreds of channels you are paying for, but never watching. Smart? I would call that seriously stupid. But its become 'accepted' and so we all march in the same lock-step towards the nirvana of pure stupidity and who gets rich? A handful of people laughing all the way to the bank. Laughing because we are all stupid enough to accept this arrangement.
So what is going to happen if cloud computing becomes the norm? My guess is, the same thing. You will be paying for stuff you don't want, you don't use, and you don't need, and when Google (or any site) goes down or fails to deliver, what is your recourse? Forget it. You wont have one. You will be billed for every failure they make, and likely we will see database surcharges, and billing for software and servers we don't actually use.
Yes, the cloud concept IS a great use of technology, but then, you can weld a jet engine to your Toyota, call it a great use of technology - but that doesn't make your Toyota a 747.
Sometimes, just because you can do something technologically, even something that looks smart, doesn't mean you should do it. Why? Because these days, people want to make money and lots of it - and cloud computing seems to me to be the next 'snake oil' sales game coming down the road. Great technology concept, yes, but in the end just another way to bill you for stuff you dont want, dont use and dont need.
July 13, 2009 at 6:38 am
umailedit (7/13/2009)
Its called putting all our eggs in a collective basket resulting in a single point of failure. We designed the internet to avoid single points of failure, that wisdom is lost now.
Can only agree.
Personally I dont see the cloud working for any company which I've ever worked for.
Our internet access is just way to slow and trusting someone outside of the company with the data the maangers just wont go for that.
Cloud : It should rather be called the pie in the sky.
July 13, 2009 at 7:00 am
Clould databases suffer from several shortcomings:
1) Bandwidth
2) Security
3) Availablility
Given all that, you'd be insane to trust your business on line--even if your business doesn't impact tens of thousands of customers (think credit card info if nothing else).
We are not now nor do I believe we will ever be in a position where the cloud is a viable widespread replacement for databases being inhouse.
A cloud-facing ordering system is one thing. A net failure affects only a small portion of your user base. One *company* going down is not normally an issue, there are backups.
But if your email is Gmail and your apps are GoogleApps and Google goes down for a couple of hours, well, you do the math...
Putting your database on the cloud when the cloud can't be trusted (in either a reliability or security sense) is just *dumb*.
July 13, 2009 at 7:07 am
I have to agree with Chris.Stuart. I don't see any company putting trade secrets, data or code processes considered part of their strategic advantage into the cloud. Do you really want the Google staff to have access to your latest web idea - including the code?
And lets face it, web only tools only work for simple stuff. Like Facebook. AutoCAD via web only - I don't think so. The Google office stuff is not good. Zoho is better if you need web office tools.
As for search, Google is maybe a little better, but they have more mind share than real advantage. I tend to use them all, Google does not always get me what I want.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
July 13, 2009 at 7:10 am
When the Cloud ("All hail the Cloud, it is merciful and just. It will envelope all of us in it's calm embrace.") comes, it will be too late! Mwuhahahahahha!!! 😀
But seriously, this can't be good. Why is there even any buzz out there? Is it because businesses can save money? I can conceivably see development and QA servers being hosted in the cloud as there is 1) much less load on them compared to production, and 2) if they go down temporarily, the business still runs. As for production environments, I shudder at the thought.
Gaby________________________________________________________________"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." - Albert Einstein
July 13, 2009 at 7:22 am
One of my least favorite phrases is "It will never happen here". In the 1962 novel, "Fail-Safe", author Eugene Burdick speculated on what would happen if all of the people responsible for our nuclear defense failed to foresee all of the possibilities. They do indeed fail, with New York and Moscow lost as a result. I'd sure like to think that such extreme events are limited to the imaginations of writers who produce 'the Matrix' and 'Terminator', but maybe the occasional loss of enough corporate data to destroy a company isn't too much for the imagination in a world where we trust everything to systems outside of our control? And forget accidental system failures - there appears to be small armies of warped people with too much time on their hands creatng viruses and other mischeif - what if one of them gets lucky on the cloud?
Carefully put things into the cloud? Sure. Make sure you have something to fall back on? Double sure.
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
July 13, 2009 at 8:09 am
Just like any other machine built by man, Google has flaws. "The Cloud" has flaws and always will. There are no perfect machines.
The thing I don't like about cloud services is that you don't really know what you're getting. Is the system really robust enough that a major earthquake, volcanic erruption, hurricane, tornado or building fire, at one location, won't lose everything for you? You'll never know till it happens.
Hosted services are one thing. You can know before-hand that your data is in X location, and you can make sure you have a backup solution at Y location. That's the easy part.
Cloud services? A major part of the idea is that you don't have/get to know where they are located.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
July 13, 2009 at 8:26 am
This is exactly why I think many companies will never embrace moving all their systems to the cloud. People who aren't technologically inclined themselves will be inclined to mistrust moving their data and applications outside their control as it is, because there is a comfort level in having things "in house", and when they see outages like this happen their distrust will be vindicated.
I have thought from the beginning of the cloud push that for the most part it would be small businesses without the budget for full IT & infrastructure and those run by people who like to jump on the latest bandwagon who participate. Sure, it's cheap and easy to get stuff on the cloud but when there are problems, good luck getting a "real person" to take your call.
I use GoogleDocs for a lot of personal projects purely for the convenience of being able to access from anywhere and for the document sharing potential, but nothing that I would lose sleep over if it suddenly disappeared and nothing too sensitive like financial and personal data. But, if I were a business owner I'd be very hesitant to base my company's data and/or core applications in the cloud.
--
Anye Mercy
"Service Unavailable is not an Error" -- John, ENOM support
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -- Inigo Montoya in "Princess Bride"
"Civilization exists by geologic consent, subject to change without notice." -- Will Durant
July 13, 2009 at 11:43 am
It's interesting to see the responses, and thanks for them.
There's a huge gap between "don't use the cloud" and "put all our systems in the cloud". selective deployment is, IMHO, the best way to go.
Years ago I heard the Oracle had an internal diverse IT structure. Groups could use *Nix, Windows, Mac, whatever. As a result, issues with a platform couldn't bring down the company. JD Edwards was a tight, centralized IT build on Windows. A few worms, like Slammer, literally shut the company down.
I've personally split things. I have a google phone and my calendar and contacts are online, but I have sync to Outlook across 3 machines. I use an iPod as well that has my calendar. I use google Reader, but I periodically have the XML file on each machine in case that dies. I like splitting my IT business among multiple platforms. It's helped me at times, though it's also caused me to spend more time learning/managing things in different ways.
July 13, 2009 at 11:49 am
*sigh* I just hope the Cloud doesn't turn into a hurricane.
Gaby________________________________________________________________"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." - Albert Einstein
July 13, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (7/13/2009)
It's interesting to see the responses, and thanks for them.There's a huge gap between "don't use the cloud" and "put all our systems in the cloud". selective deployment is, IMHO, the best way to go.
Years ago I heard the Oracle had an internal diverse IT structure. Groups could use *Nix, Windows, Mac, whatever. As a result, issues with a platform couldn't bring down the company. JD Edwards was a tight, centralized IT build on Windows. A few worms, like Slammer, literally shut the company down.
I've personally split things. I have a google phone and my calendar and contacts are online, but I have sync to Outlook across 3 machines. I use an iPod as well that has my calendar. I use google Reader, but I periodically have the XML file on each machine in case that dies. I like splitting my IT business among multiple platforms. It's helped me at times, though it's also caused me to spend more time learning/managing things in different ways.
That approach makes sense. Kind of like health insurance with a high deductible. Adds a bit to your costs, but if you ever really need it, you'll have it.
As far as partial deployment into the cloud, I can see it having value for e-mail and documents, especially for people who travel a lot. I've got a hotmail account that I've used as my primary e-mail for almost a decade now. If I lose a computer, or replace one, I don't have to worry about losing the e-mails. If I don't have an internet connection, I can't get to my e-mail, but I'm unlikely to be doing anything useful with e-mail if I don't have a connection anyway. Also has the major advantage that I can change ISPs, etc., without losing my e-mail, without any work on my part.
At the same time, I'd never put certain documents on the web. I keep them in a safe deposit box at the bank, and keep a soft copy (or at least a scan) on an encrypted partition on my desktop machine.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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