January 29, 2002 at 12:43 pm
I am not sure how T-SQL will become a .NET language, but imagine you could code a front end in T-SQL? Not that you'd want to, but if that's all you know?
What about stored procedures in VB?
It is a great concept. It builds on Java and extends it to other languages. If ytou have ever tried to integrate C++ with VB, you'd appreciate the stride forward. Extending this to Cobol, Perl, etc is an amazing thing to shoot for.
As for the port:
Steve Jones
January 29, 2002 at 1:20 pm
If they expanded T-SQL so we could code front-ends... nah, too many structures would have to be added. But seriously, by opening up to .NET, what it does mean is that coding should become easier for developers with respect to apps using the DB. A lot of developers know their primary language well, but aren't so proficient at T-SQL.
K. Brian Kelley
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
February 2, 2002 at 5:59 pm
Latest thing I picked up at Pass was that in Yukon you'll be able to declare an object on the server and use it as a user defined data type. That plus EM/ISQLW are being replaced with a non-MMC workbench app ala the .Net type IDE.
Andy
February 3, 2002 at 6:28 pm
Did you get a chance to see the Yukon demo? Anything of interest shown?
K. Brian Kelley
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
February 3, 2002 at 6:38 pm
Nothing much more than I posted earlier..that I can think of at the moment anyway, is all kind of a blur!
Andy
February 4, 2002 at 11:12 am
February 5, 2002 at 3:04 pm
I like it for the most part, but considering the antitrust case I am surprised Microsoft is being given such a pivotal product as it basically leads everything into proprietary Microsoft format. Also some of the ease will mean those little desktop hacks who have no clue will start creating more garbage to deal with (you know the ones who delete odd thins like user.dat and system.dat because they were using so much space). Finally, my last gripe was being a VB programmer it pushes me more toward C syntax (which isn't as bad as it may sound as I was already programming C at my bosses request).
February 5, 2002 at 3:13 pm
quote:
I like it for the most part, but considering the antitrust case I am surprised Microsoft is being given such a pivotal product as it basically leads everything into proprietary Microsoft format.
I'm not sure I follow this one. Yukon is the follow on to SQL 2K and .NET is Microsoft's answer (in reality) to one of Sun's initiatives.
K. Brian Kelley
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
February 5, 2002 at 3:27 pm
Not sure I follow either. .NET is based on a submision to a standards body. Granted it's originated by MS, but it will be crafted to a standard (we hope). There's a port to Linux underway now as well.
I do agree that .NET in and of itself does not produce better code. In fact, I am somewhat against having easy to develop solutions precisely because people will build things without really spending time to design them well.
.NET is also not a product per see, but a framework. I know there is a .NET server, but from what I've seen, it's a combination of W2K with the CLR embedded in there. You can already implement the CLR on W2K, so I'm not sold on even upgrading.
Steve Jones
February 5, 2002 at 3:36 pm
There are some changes in the .NET Server family that are more than just Windows 2000 with the CLR. They are making some noticeable changes to AD (namely the ability to rename the root domain). Also, IIS 6 will be on there. Here's a basic features page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows.NETserver/evaluation/choosing/default.asp
Found this, too:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows.netserver/techinfo/overview/default.asp
K. Brian Kelley
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/
Edited by - bkelley on 02/05/2002 3:39:03 PM
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
February 7, 2002 at 2:01 pm
Going back to what I posted. Even though Microsoft is sharing they still are the original developing company and until the turn over to a standards committee they are the licensed owners. It is propritary under Microsoft until they choose to release it as open. Now I am not saying they won't turn it over just pointing out the way it stands. If anyone has heard anything different on who controls it right now then I am just not up to date on that, sorry.
February 7, 2002 at 2:29 pm
I think what we were referring to was the comment about Microsoft being "given" .NET.
What you are describing is the main issue with Java. Sun has pulled back Java from any and all standards bodies. That's why Sun and IBM are having some issues with each other. The E-trade IBM w/ Linux middle-tier solution replacing Sun's Solaris solution probably didn't help either (http://news.com.com/2100-1017-827366.html?tag=cd_mh).
Microsoft has SOAP in front of the W3C and had C# and the CLR (CLI) in front of ECMA. The specifications were ratified by the ECMA in December.
ECMA-334 is for the C# language
ECMA-335 is for the CLI
K. Brian Kelley
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/
Edited by - bkelley on 02/07/2002 3:58:14 PM
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
February 7, 2002 at 5:16 pm
Sorry poor wording on my part. Let's see. Microsoft being allowed to continue as is without being broken up or forced to open source when .NET posses such a great control over the future of not only Windows but other operating systems and giving more power to MS to shape things there way in a competitive strangling environment. Is that better?
February 7, 2002 at 6:18 pm
Regardless of your MS position, its long past time that MS upgraded the VS suite. Im sure its not the right tool for everyone, but I find it meets my needs and the changes in .Net I think will help me work better. Could I do the same in another language? Probably. Worth it?
Andy
February 7, 2002 at 7:04 pm
First I have no beef with Microsoft and have done several betas especially .NET, I was merely pointing out that I was surprised with all the antitrust suites that a number of the companies involved in the suite are in on .NET but no complaints so far. .NET has a lot of merit and when SP1 hits I will most likely be able to push our environment that way as I just don't have the luxury of a budget to get things in place to ensure torubles will not affect my group. I love the SQL Connector and the way it connects to SQL. I am ready to put out distributed apps that can download as a piece is needed and not all at once. I love the new threading model for VB. I just want to throw in the dark side as well for balance. .NET when released will be a mixed bag for everyone but most of all is how it truly performs when put in the real world full blown.
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