May 22, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Negotiating Your Raise Before Your Annual Review
May 22, 2011 at 11:27 pm
You have some good tips there. I'll try them out next year 😀
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May 23, 2011 at 6:45 am
I've been lucky in that I haven't needed to negotiate as much in the past few years, but about five years ago, I had one of those moments. I was between direct supervisors, temporarily reporting to a vice president. I was happy to be with the company, but unhappy with salary and the pace of my professional growth. When it came time to sit down with my new boss and discuss goals for the year, I put him on the spot: "I want to become a senior programmer/analyst and I want to make X amount of money. What do I need to do to make these things happen?" He listed out the things that I needed to to learn to add to our overall department skill set, and projects that I would need to complete. I did all of those things and more. It was really a great outcome on both ends, because I got the promotion and the raise, and they got a more productive employee. It's the way that things should be.
May 23, 2011 at 7:04 am
Raise? What raise? Seriously I know things are turning around in hiring IT wise, but mostly I just still feel lucky to even have a job in this economy.
May 23, 2011 at 7:14 am
This is just silly.....Any boss can easily squirm out of a previous committment about what you need to do to get a raise. "HR won't approve it", "the CIO has set a cap on salary based on the latest budgets", etc....Asking them "what do I need to do" puts them in the driver's seat and leaves you with your hat in your hand....
Wanna raise? Do the things your boss put on your goals for this year and go find a new job you are willing to take. Then, calmly walk into his/her office and tell them what you want....That puts you in the driver's seat.
There's no real substitute for leverage...
May 23, 2011 at 7:15 am
My favorite was when I was changing positions right around review time. I jokingly told my manager that she should give me the biggest raise possible since it wouldn't come out of her budget anyway. She pulled that off and since my last annual raise was skipped due to a recent out of cycle raise it got prorated up. Then all my new boss had to do was ask permission to pay me the same amount I would have been making if I had stayed in my old position which he got.
May 23, 2011 at 7:57 am
At my last job, instead of waiting for a decent raise(which I would only get when I told them I was looking for a new job(2 times, 3rd time I did leave)) , I just started working 40 hours instead and coming in late. I mean, if creating a complex report/application that saved the company $100,000 each quarter isn't enough to get a more than average raise, what is. Won an award at least.
At my new job, I just don't have the same expectation of a great raise as I know there is a budget limit. At some point I'll probably negotiate vacation days but 30 PTO is fine I suppose. So we just work 40 hours and come and go with good flexibiiltiy. Might be able to make 10-15K more somewhere else but I'm sure it would be a lot more work and on-call duties like my other job was.
May 23, 2011 at 9:28 am
Phil, what would you think if you were on the side of the table and someone applied that kind of "leverage"? It's not to say it doesn't work sometimes, most often because it in turn gives your manager the leverage to go ask for extra funds, but would you want to keep that employee long term?
May 23, 2011 at 9:41 am
krowley (5/23/2011)
Raise? What raise? Seriously I know things are turning around in hiring IT wise, but mostly I just still feel lucky to even have a job in this economy.
Perhaps, but there are plenty of people getting jobs, and getting raises, albeit usually small ones, in this economy. Part of what I think Andy was trying to talk about it the proactive action to ask for a raise, not sitting around and waiting for someone to give you one. Go find out what would help.
May 23, 2011 at 10:19 am
After reading about this and thinking about it a bit, I have to admit I am probably more in the realm of the faint of heart in this area. Talking money and bickering/haggling/negotiating over it is not my strong suit.
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May 23, 2011 at 11:22 am
Andy Warren (5/23/2011)
Phil, what would you think if you were on the side of the table and someone applied that kind of "leverage"? It's not to say it doesn't work sometimes, most often because it in turn gives your manager the leverage to go ask for extra funds, but would you want to keep that employee long term?
Andy, it's a sad but true fact that businesses try to keep costs down to keep profits up. To that, it's difficult to get a raise unless you scare them into realizing that you know they're underpaying you.
I don't disagree with trying the proactive approach first, but a number of times, it's just plain useless. It's almost always worth trying though. Just anyone who uses that method needs to be prepared to go to that other job, in case of the reaction you're mentioning here... "They'll pay you that? Hm. I see. Well, good luck there."
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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May 23, 2011 at 11:32 am
I don't think the first step is to threaten to leave. That can very easily go poorly and burn bridges if it's not done right. And sometimes even then it can burn bridges. However, if you approach it from the perspective of wanting to know what you can do to get that raise you may not get what you want but at least you won't have threatening to quit hanging over you. At that point you can start looking for jobs and then go and quit (or just use it as leverage for money if that's your style.)
May 23, 2011 at 11:41 am
You can come to me with another job offer once, if you're a good and valuable employee. The second time I would feel that I can't please you and I can't win the battle of "better job or more money" and let you go.
Negotiating for a raise isn't guaranteed to succeed. But it's a good tactic to try. You can always go get another job, and lots of businesses aren't just trying to cut every cost by not paying employees. There are plenty that do want to keep people happy or improve their lives. Your boss wants a raise just like you, and so they can relate to it.
Reality sometimes intrudes in the cost structures of the business, but not always. If it does for you, I might re-examine your employer or the job you are doing. It might be you is doing something that isn't worth a raise, or your company doesn't value you. However that's not the case everywhere.
May 23, 2011 at 11:42 am
I didn't say you had to be mean or insulting about it. But let's be honest, some people will simply not give what you deserve, even when it is clear you are doing a solid work. You either put yourself in the power position or get used to fighting hard for very incremental gains. Employers hold this kind of leverage over you ALL THE TIME:
- Goals are changed midyear
- Your task list is a mile long and new projects keep piling on, with no changes in delivery dates
- Promised resources never materialize
- You work 50+ hours every week for little or no comptime, sending your hourly rate to near minimum wage...
This happens ALL THE TIME...it's "just business". Having a little "softly but firmly" in you (and a beeter offer) will get things moving. This is also "just business". This is also why I am a consultant.
May 23, 2011 at 11:53 am
PhilDaniels (5/23/2011)
I didn't say you had to be mean or insulting about it. But let's be honest, some people will simply not give what you deserve, even when it is clear you are doing a solid work. You either put yourself in the power position or get used to fighting hard for very incremental gains. Employers hold this kind of leverage over you ALL THE TIME:- Goals are changed midyear
- Your task list is a mile long and new projects keep piling on, with no changes in delivery dates
- Promised resources never materialize
- You work 50+ hours every week for little or no comptime, sending your hourly rate to near minimum wage...
This happens ALL THE TIME...it's "just business". Having a little "softly but firmly" in you (and a beeter offer) will get things moving. This is also "just business". This is also why I am a consultant.
I would disagree. When those things start happening, I start bailing out no matter what the pay is unless it's exorbinant enough to cover the stress levels. That's no longer in the realm of solid work vs. raises, that's just bad management.
Steve, I agree with you it's not a tactic you should use often, but if you dealt with that every 3 to 5 years and the person wasn't getting any raises otherwise, would you still feel it was someone to cut loose? Yes, every 6 months is a bit much.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
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