September 21, 2015 at 1:31 pm
You are not endearing yourself to anyone by disrespecting someone you have been giving backhanded insults too for the entire post.
You sound like you are hurt. Did you want to receive the AWARD as well, that I gave to Lynn?
September 21, 2015 at 1:33 pm
PHYData DBA (9/21/2015)
erichansen1836 (9/21/2015)
All I am hearing anymore from erichansen1836 is "wha wha wha wha" just like the adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon.
I have to say Lynn, you get the AWARD for the most instructive comments on this Thread.
Where would we be without your insightful feedback?
Answer: We would be reading his positive and insightful information about M$ SQL server on the web sight created to share that information.
Instead we get to read the fictitious hateful uneducated troll trash that you and your catfish keep posting to this thread.
You are not endearing yourself to anyone by disrespecting someone you have been giving backhanded insults too for the entire post.
Sorry everyone for the Off Topic posts. Although I am not sure if there was a valid Question that was seeking a true answer anyway.
Actually, he had a question, he wanted to know why he would want to "down-size" from his free database solution to an enterprise class RDBMS solution like MS SQL Server that costs thousands of dollars.
Only problem is he won't discuss things like backup/recovery, point in time recovery, RPO/RTO, HA/DR. You know, the things that we as database professionals care about since our ultimate job is the protect and defend the data that belongs to the businesses and/or organizations we support.
September 21, 2015 at 1:35 pm
And please consider my suggestion to NOT ADD or DELETE rows across the database file system directly, but indirectly, then ADD AND DELETE them directly just before a periodic (say monthly) JetComp.exe Utility file reorganization/optimization of the entire 500 file system.
My example of US_Census_2010_TX_A.mdb is not going to be a practical and efficient method of data storage and retrieval if you goal is to randomly or sequentially perform lookups to the records based on something other than (State=Texas and LastName begins with "A").
....snip
But if you want to use the database for Police suspect identity, or murder victim identity, or missing persons identity, you might want to segregate the data by {State, (Region or County or City), Sex, Race, Age Range, and even Height Range, Weight Range, eye color, hair color, if available}. Not sure all the info gathered during a Census?
ok, so...if for example a user wanted the count of males aged over 75 in the 2010 census....are you saying you would need another mdb (US_Census_2010_maleover65.mdb)? (the answer is somewhere around 17,362,960) .....would I have to create another mdb for each range..?
am struggling to understand your concept where it seems that I would need to segregate the census data based on my predetermined segregation and heaven help any user that wanted to query anything else that need to span multiple mdbs.....or am I still not understanding??
your comment about only adding/deleting records on a periodic basis and then running a reorganization/optimization utility bothers me........how long does this utility take to run on 500 mdbs with 5 billion transactions.?....maybe it can work on relatively static data (data warehouse maybe)....but still need to know how to work with catch all queries.
my questions are really based out of having to deliver processes to end users that meet their enquiring minds...who knows what they will ask tomorrow?
________________________________________________________________
you can lead a user to data....but you cannot make them think
and remember....every day is a school day
September 21, 2015 at 1:38 pm
I still don't understand so may keep responding to this thread. It won't die if you keep reviving it.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
September 21, 2015 at 1:39 pm
Lynn Pettis (9/21/2015)
PHYData DBA (9/21/2015)
erichansen1836 (9/21/2015)
All I am hearing anymore from erichansen1836 is "wha wha wha wha" just like the adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon.
I have to say Lynn, you get the AWARD for the most instructive comments on this Thread.
Where would we be without your insightful feedback?
Answer: We would be reading his positive and insightful information about M$ SQL server on the web sight created to share that information.
Instead we get to read the fictitious hateful uneducated troll trash that you and your catfish keep posting to this thread.
You are not endearing yourself to anyone by disrespecting someone you have been giving backhanded insults too for the entire post.
Sorry everyone for the Off Topic posts. Although I am not sure if there was a valid Question that was seeking a true answer anyway.
Actually, he had a question, he wanted to know why he would want to "down-size" from his free database solution to an enterprise class RDBMS solution like MS SQL Server that costs thousands of dollars.
Only problem is he won't discuss things like backup/recovery, point in time recovery, RPO/RTO, HA/DR. You know, the things that we as database professionals care about since our ultimate job is the protect and defend the data that belongs to the businesses and/or organizations we support.
He can't provide details on something that does not exist yet.
Fairly certain that is where we truly are at this point.
Not sure if the Vapor is in his head or the Solution itself. The only things he has provided are guesses about how something might work in his solutions and posts that are OPC cut and pasted here.
September 21, 2015 at 1:52 pm
erichansen1836 (9/21/2015)
You are not endearing yourself to anyone by disrespecting someone you have been giving backhanded insults too for the entire post.
You sound like you are hurt. Did you want to receive the AWARD as well, that I gave to Lynn?
The only thing any of us would like from you at this point is silence.
We all seem to have a much lower tolerance for hate and stupidity than you do.
Perhaps that was the real purpose. To increase tolerance for Trolls by exposing us to some of their idiocrazy.
😛
September 21, 2015 at 2:19 pm
Apologies for baiting a troll, but one thing that would scare me about using Access/Jet for any important database is data security. I worked in healthcare for a while, and fines for data breaches are seriously expensive. Sure, SQL Server is expensive, but is it less expensive than that fine you're going to pay when someone copies your database to his thumb drive and uses it for malicious purposes?
September 21, 2015 at 2:56 pm
pietlinden (9/21/2015)
Apologies for baiting a troll, but one thing that would scare me about using Access/Jet for any important database is data security. I worked in healthcare for a while, and fines for data breaches are seriously expensive. Sure, SQL Server is expensive, but is it less expensive than that fine you're going to pay when someone copies your database to his thumb drive and uses it for malicious purposes?
I agree. He ignored questions already about about ANSI and Security certifications required when using a solution to store any data in a system that is for lack of a better term "Governed and Regulate".
Went back and read trough his posts to get a better idea of what he is talking about anyway.a
Too many of them talk about how things "could be done" or "this other solution that is not mine does it like this" for me to believe this solution of his exists in the way he has represented it.
Lots and Lots of big words, no links to anything external.
Most everywhere that uses an open source solution that includes other open source projects are published on the internet.
That is the only way you are allowed <legaly> to make changes to or use these things commercially without paying for them.
If he wanted true answer he would provide us with true information about how to "re-create" his custom environment.
He won't do that. Won't answer questions. Insults anyone that tries to get real with him about why we think he's a joke.
So disappointing considering there are some very smart systems built around the technology he seems to know little real information about.
September 22, 2015 at 9:45 am
Actually, he had a question, he wanted to know why he would want to "down-size" from his free database solution to an enterprise class RDBMS solution like MS SQL Server that costs thousands of dollars.
Only problem is he won't discuss things like backup/recovery, point in time recovery, RPO/RTO, HA/DR. You know, the things that we as database professionals care about since our ultimate job is the protect and defend the data that belongs to the businesses and/or organizations we support.
Lynn Pettis
My response (on Page 3) to David Webb ...
I would keep daily and
monthlyweekly backups of the entire database on inexpensive thumb drives perhaps. I would also have the Perl interface to the database write out each successful Insert/Update/Delete statement to a Restore Log file daily. It would be designed such that the RESTORE POINT application utilityyoudesigned could bypass certain SQL updates in those SQL log files.Restore Log (Fixed-Length Record Flat File) records might contain:
Date Time User PC_Node_ID SQL_Statement
You could bypass updates during a certain time period, by a certain User, by multiple Users updating from the same PC NodeID, etc.
If for example you wanted to restore the database to yesterday at EOB, first restore your backup off the thumbdrive(s) from yesterday at EOB. Then apply all database changes for today with the exception of changes made by a certain user, or by all users logged in at a particular PC Node you wish to exclude. This might be done if you suspected this user (whom you just fired) was vandalizing the database under their own username and that of a fellow employee. This is just one example. Or you could restore the database to a certain date/time for today, or you could exclude all changes made prior to 10AM, but keep changes made after 10AM, etc.
Someone has sugegsted that SQL SERVER databases can keep on running and end-users keep on SQL querying/updating the database while a backup/restore is in progress. FINE.
You can't do that with MS-Jet Engine/ODBC-enabled databases. All users must be logged out of the database.
They may still be logged into the database user-interface, but they won't be able to access the database from there. ODBC connections are not static, so it is not hard to ensure all users are logged out of the database itself. I maintain an ADMIN table containing username/password credentials, user access levels, etc. I also have a LOCKOUT flag for ALL users or ANY single user. The current status of this FLAG is always checked each time any ODBC connection to the database is attempted by an end-user. If the Flag is set to "Y" or TRUE, then the ODBC connection to the database is denied.
September 22, 2015 at 9:54 am
Apologies for baiting a troll, but one thing that would scare me about using Access/Jet for any important database is data security. I worked in healthcare for a while, and fines for data breaches are seriously expensive. Sure, SQL Server is expensive, but is it less expensive than that fine you're going to pay when someone copies your database to his thumb drive and uses it for malicious purposes?
You can't copy a Network Share Folder's contents (i.e. database files) if your Sys Admin has placed the correct group permissions on the Folder/Subfolders for the database end-users. Those not in this database user group have no permission at all to the Folder. Both database users and those not in that group can't even list the contents of such a directory if those privileges have been properly revoked by the DBA and/or SysAdmin. See Garry Robinson's book (2004) by Apress, which I have referenced several times on this thread, which address MS-Access database security via the NTFS Operating System security features (covers XP pro, 2000 pro, 2000 server, 2003 server).
Database access (for end-users) is strictly limited through the ODBC/GUI database user-interface COMPILED software.
September 22, 2015 at 10:02 am
The only thing any of us would like from you at this point is silence.
We all seem to have a much lower tolerance for hate and stupidity than you do.
Perhaps that was the real purpose. To increase tolerance for Trolls by exposing us to some of their idiocrazy.
And so you are blaming me because you have lived a sheltered life? Come on!
September 22, 2015 at 10:20 am
ok, so...if for example a user wanted the count of males aged over 75 in the 2010 census....are you saying you would need another mdb (US_Census_2010_maleover65.mdb)? (the answer is somewhere around 17,362,960) .....would I have to create another mdb for each range..?
am struggling to understand your concept where it seems that I would need to segregate the census data based on my predetermined segregation and heaven help any user that wanted to query anything else that need to span multiple mdbs.....or am I still not understanding??
your comment about only adding/deleting records on a periodic basis and then running a reorganization/optimization utility bothers me........how long does this utility take to run on 500 mdbs with 5 billion transactions.?....maybe it can work on relatively static data (data warehouse maybe)....but still need to know how to work with catch all queries.
my questions are really based out of having to deliver processes to end users that meet their enquiring minds...who knows what they will ask tomorrow?
First, you have to understand that this database is for Business purposes, and not for playing around on.
Your query suggestion is playing around. You don't want your workforce screwing around on company time taking up precious Network resources with petty queries.
A user would not need to know or be allowed to run such a query (as you have suggested) on a MS-Jet/ODBC-enabled database designed for lookups to the database system by {U.S. State and citizen LastName}. That is the problem with most database Servers. Users can tie up resources by initiating any superfluous query they wish, to screw the rest of the user base, slowing the system to perhaps a crawl.
Yes, the State/LastName data segregation scheme could be accessed by ODBC to sequentially scan the data for the query you suggest. You can't have table indexes on {SEX,AGE RANGE}. That is too large a grouping for Alternate Indexes(with DUPS) to work well. You could open all 500 *.MDB files at once, or open/close them one at a time in a process LOOP (For, Foreach). I have done this across multiple (dozens of) Oracle Database Servers(Linux O/S), accessing the database tables on those Servers from my Windows desktop via my Win32 Perl/ODBC script, to create consolidated reports (from common tables) within just seconds. Runs very very fast. If the 500 *.MDB files reside on the same Windows O/S Server, then the speed should be equally or perhaps faster in theory.
And as I have mentioned before, I have implemented this system at several companies with perfect results, over both Windows Server and Windows Peer-to-Peer Networks, multi-user environment, with never any dropped connections or loss of data or file corruption issues over the years. Just have yet to implement the system with multiple or dozens or 100s of *.MDB files as the database. I can't project any problems occurring.
Just be sure you have a robust enough Server(s) and a stable Hard Wired LAN (no Wi-Fi LANs). Not recommended for WAN (e.g. Internet) says Microsoft. If the database is ReadOnly, this may not be an issue.
One other thought is this, for database statistics like you have suggested, instead of users running such queries at will from the client-side, why not run such queries Server-side and store them in a STATS table, where users can lookup common statistical questions - as you have suggested. I always gather statistics for my databases anyway. It is just good ETL practice to know what your database contains. These can be refreshed overnight on an ongoing basis should the database be significantly updated daily instead of periodically.
September 22, 2015 at 11:30 am
Lots and Lots of big words, no links to anything external.
Most everywhere that uses an open source solution that includes other open source projects are published on the internet.
What other open source project links?
This is an undocumented database solution(s) which I have invented myself (Joint Database Technology, Reduction Database Technology). New methodologies, using existing database technologies (MS-Jet Engine/ODBC Databases; Fixed-Length Text File Databases/Perl SDBM Databases).
Microsoft did not even think about using MS-Jet Engine/ODBC this way (10s,100s of MDB files acting as partial tables instead of databases in and of themselves).
You sound like you work for Wikipedia. Do you?
September 22, 2015 at 11:54 am
If you haven't actually implemented this with dozens or hundreds of MDBs, why don't you give that a try and then come back and tell everyone how it went? I'd be really interested in how you handled the inevitable restore/recovery situations. And please keep track of the cost so we can actually tell whether this Frankensteinian conglomeration really costs less than a commercial product that would handle the same load. Until then, I wouldn't touch this thing with a 10 foot pole or let you build it in any environment for which I had responsibility.
September 22, 2015 at 1:01 pm
erichansen1836 (9/22/2015)
Actually, he had a question, he wanted to know why he would want to "down-size" from his free database solution to an enterprise class RDBMS solution like MS SQL Server that costs thousands of dollars.
Only problem is he won't discuss things like backup/recovery, point in time recovery, RPO/RTO, HA/DR. You know, the things that we as database professionals care about since our ultimate job is the protect and defend the data that belongs to the businesses and/or organizations we support.
Lynn Pettis
My response (on Page 3) to David Webb ...
I would keep daily and
monthlyweekly backups of the entire database on inexpensive thumb drives perhaps. I would also have the Perl interface to the database write out each successful Insert/Update/Delete statement to a Restore Log file daily. It would be designed such that the RESTORE POINT application utilityyoudesigned could bypass certain SQL updates in those SQL log files.Restore Log (Fixed-Length Record Flat File) records might contain:
Date Time User PC_Node_ID SQL_Statement
You could bypass updates during a certain time period, by a certain User, by multiple Users updating from the same PC NodeID, etc.
If for example you wanted to restore the database to yesterday at EOB, first restore your backup off the thumbdrive(s) from yesterday at EOB. Then apply all database changes for today with the exception of changes made by a certain user, or by all users logged in at a particular PC Node you wish to exclude. This might be done if you suspected this user (whom you just fired) was vandalizing the database under their own username and that of a fellow employee. This is just one example. Or you could restore the database to a certain date/time for today, or you could exclude all changes made prior to 10AM, but keep changes made after 10AM, etc.
Someone has sugegsted that SQL SERVER databases can keep on running and end-users keep on SQL querying/updating the database while a backup/restore is in progress. FINE.
You can't do that with MS-Jet Engine/ODBC-enabled databases. All users must be logged out of the database.
They may still be logged into the database user-interface, but they won't be able to access the database from there. ODBC connections are not static, so it is not hard to ensure all users are logged out of the database itself. I maintain an ADMIN table containing username/password credentials, user access levels, etc. I also have a LOCKOUT flag for ALL users or ANY single user. The current status of this FLAG is always checked each time any ODBC connection to the database is attempted by an end-user. If the Flag is set to "Y" or TRUE, then the ODBC connection to the database is denied.
Why would I even want to do the following:
It would be designed such that the RESTORE POINT application utility you designed could bypass certain SQL updates in those SQL log files.
How would I know what updates I could bypass? You could easily have dependent updates between different users that if you skipped any users updates the data would be in an inconsistent state when you completed the Point in Time Restore. Remember, your Point in Time Restore needs to leave the database in a consistent state and the point in time it is restored. How do you handle the incomplete transactions that may be in flight at the time of failure that requires a point in time restore?
These are just a few of the things that a commercial, enterprise class RDBMs provides without anyone having to write a line of code to ensure database consistency.
How does your system ensure this consistency?
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