More Visas
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Not sure they couldn't. You have to look at the companies busness model and trim any unneccessary items to be 100% sure. But in the short term they will not and I understand that. But eventually Nortel/Simans workers will get greedy as the profit margin goes up. Then either they will be forced to pay more or those folks will go work elsewhere, start their own companies or just start doing subpar work. Short term is there is nothing we can do, long term is it will fix itself or it won't matter, very long term is we have to keep and eye on what is hppening around us and be sure we are prepared to fight any system that developes that takes away or right to be who we all are. I mean look at England at th time of colinization of the Americas. The issues of people inflicting their own ideas and ideals on the colonies from the UK caught up with them and the colonies severed the ties that bound them. Ultimately as long as people are complacent in their attitudes towards things, even those people who are on the receiving side, then all we can do is head for doom and it will be to late if everyone including the Chinese workers and Indian workers and any others doesn't recognize it before then. Gobalization is not a bad thing, but uncontrolled and unbalanced it will be a major issue in the fall of all civilization.
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One big issue with hiring American workers is the lack of technology training in this country. Too many students would rather try to get rich playing sports instead of getting a good technical education. Our schools have failed to educate our young people with the technical skills they need to compete for jobs in the technology industry.
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I'm amazed at the volume of response this post has generated - Steve - I can't help but wonder if you end each day thinking about the next topic to "unleash" from your personal Pandora's box ?!?! <;-)
sswords - I really enjoyed reading your comments - if you're ever out of a job you should seriously considering writing for a living...
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
Thanks shushila. I was half expecting to get flamed, but the day is still young.
And believe me, a writing career is starting to sound better all the time. And as long as accolades are being handed out, thanks to Mary K. for your very informative posts and links as I greatly enjoyed both.
My hovercraft is full of eels.
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As posted earlier immigration is a big issue in the UK right now, especially with the general election tomorrow.
We have a problem called the BNP (British National Party). Imagine Hitler's brown shirts without the brains or social graces.
Immigration needs to be controlled and monitored properly if the immigrants are to integrate properly into their host society. Failure to do this results in racial tension and upsurges in shit stirrers like the BNP.
I think migrant workers particularly of Asian/Arabic extraction would be very good for America, not least because these people would be able to report back that America is not a moral cess pool, Americans are not the spawn of Satan and are not all trigger happy idiots.
My worry about Bill Gate's comments is that using immigrants is a short term fix where as investment in education is a long term investment. Certainly in the UK short term fixes are rife but there is no sign of long term investment. For example, our principle rail locomotive had an intended life of 20 years (which expired 10 years ago). It takes between 5 and 10 years to design and specify a new locomotive so why is there still no replacement even on the drawing board 10 years after the locomotives were due to be scrapped? Short termism again.
Personally I think capitalist/communist systems both fail because they are synthetic systems which fall down when human elements are applied to them. As someone once said, of all the terrible systems in the world capitalism is the least worst.
Another problem is that lack of IT workers aren't the problem it is lack of SKILLED IT workers. As they say in Yorkshire thee doesn't get owt for nowt.
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Thanks for the complement on the writing
I used to hate generating this editorials because they take time and effort, but it's become kind of fun, especially now that I get feedback and we have some interesting discussions. I may shoot for that writer position one day, though I'm not sure anyone other than Andy or Brian will pay
I tend to write 2 or 3 editorials at a time to make my workload easier, mostly based on interesting things I see when searching for Database Daily news or in the periodicals I receive.
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I still don't get this 'lack of skilled IT workers' argument. We're a small shop in a medium sized city, and when we do run the occasional ad, we get lots of resumes from qualified people. It's quite the buyers market, and we can choose the peripheral skills and personality type to best fit our shop. And most of our people have friends in the industry that would like in the door, too.
Can someone give me real examples of not being able to find skilled IT workers in at least a reasonably-sized town?
My experience with corporate HR staff (as opposed to the operating managers who used to do the hiring) is that their only concern is avoiding embarrasment or litigation. If the spec calls for 5 years experience in Java, then the candidate with 4 years in Java, 3 years in SQL, 3 years in C++, a masters in mathematics and two foreign languages is unqualified, even though the Dev manager would have loved that candidate.
Don't get me started on when the HR manager want 5 years experience in an 18-month-old technology! Or the armies of people who are automatically disqualified because they are 'over-qualified'.
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I saw an article that argued that certain languages attract good programmers. If that is the case then C++ and Java will naturally be skilled.
Try recruiting a good VB programmer and you will soon find out about skills shortages.
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Interestingly (at least to me) I was talking with a friend about this last evening and she told me about her niece who had an extended stay in Australia some time ago. She then proceeded to explain their system of immigration which intrigued me quite a bit. From what I understand, they have adopted a system where workers can earn differing levels points based on their job class and the market demand for certain positions. For instance, if there is a glut of workers with a particular skill set the system awards these visiting workers fewer points. More points go to workers in positions that are more difficult to fill. Visitors can then apply for visa extensions, residency or even citizenship based on the total number of points that they earn. The system can also be adjusted periodically to reflect fluctuations in the job markets. As they say in the Guinness commercials...."Brilliant!"
Maybe some of our Aussie friends can explain this better than I have attempted to do, and let us know if it they think that this system works or not. But to me this seems like a much more logical and practical approach to the immigration problem than what we have in the US. Our system based on primarily on quotas, countries of origin, and special exceptions seems much more arbitrary and a good deal less protective of the interests of most workers.
I'm looking forward to hearing some thoughts and comments from someone 'Down Under'. G'Day!
My hovercraft is full of eels.
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About more training in US, from my understanding, the IT trainning here in US is far more superior than the one in Asian countries. So when you said lack of training, what exactly that you mean?
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Training may be far superior but it has a hefty price attached to it - training in Asian coutries on the other hand is way cheaper & because everybody (& his uncle) scramble to get certified/trained etc. also fiercely competitive - which's why it's the "fittest" amongst these who finally make it to the U.S...
One of the other posters mentioned the sheer volume (population) of Asian countries....
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
There is another take on this situation here: http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/management/story/0,10801,101627,00.html
In this article Intel's outgoing CEO Craig Barrett goes on record as saying that current US policies are driving away both businesses and the skilled work force that is needed to staff them.
After reading this, I'm not sure about where I personally stand on his comments about corporations needing more 'incentives' to remain in the US. And as the article points out, Intel has in the past been accused of seeking what amounts to corporate welfare from our government. Still, it seems to me that outsourcing and off-shoring are becoming more and more frequent and that these actions have serious, long term implications for the economy. It's not hard to imagine the negative economic and psychological impact of a company like Intel deciding to give up its presence in the United States. Couple this with the decapitalization of US Industry that's been going on for the last 3 decades, and it looks like a formula for disaster for both the industry and its work force.
My hovercraft is full of eels.
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The thing that is hardest for a non-US citizens to appreciate is that the US is, near as damn it, a continent rather than a country.
If the US built a 100 mile high wall around itself and nothing went in and nothing came out the US would still survive, at least until someone figured out how to fill it up with water (see Series 9889908359 of 24 where Jack Bauer foils a plot to anihalate the entire US stock of stirrup pumps)!
You cannot outsource a continent.
Most EU countries on the otherhand would fit in a corner of Texas. The EU, EEC, Common Market etc was originally conceived precisely to stop any single member possessing the manufacturing capability to start a war with another member and therefore EU countries cannot function in isolation.
Also, various EU members have at some stage had an empire which has set a historical precedent that has lead to much lower resistance to outsourcing to former armpits of the aforementioned empire. It has also set a precedent for immigration from former members of the respective empires.
Within the US Intel could effectively outsource to one of its poorer states and make a cost saving whilst still maintaining US jobs. We don't have that option in Europe. Germany may outsource its resources to Poland (no jokes please) but German jobs would be lost.
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Germany may outsource its resources to Poland (no jokes please) but German jobs would be lost.
I could resist... 
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Frank Kalis
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Webmaster: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs
My blog: http://www.insidesql.org/blogs/frankkalis/[/url] -
Its true about national borders getting less important than the economy of the big companies. Now a days, starting in US, big companies only rule the nations and the economies (remember the war at Iraq).
If you see microsoft, it has hired the most number of asians and is at the top of the technology. And US is a country with many people from different countries live and hence Bill Gates is saying there should not be any restrictions and whoever wants to play let them play in a level playing field, which according to him is true.
Either the people (through voting system) or the government should handle this question
Velan
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