June 22, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Ross McMicken (6/22/2011)
Uh, no. Banks have been responsible for forged checks for decades, especially if you reported the loss of the checks. As for credit cards, consumers in the US have been responsible for only $50 in unauthorized charges if card loss was reported for as long as I can remember, which is back into the 70's.
not being sarcastic, if you know please share. I like to learn.
Why did we need the "Check 21" legislation that was not put in place untill 2006?
Why was there an out cryfor reform, especialy when the Banks started pushing everyone to stop using cash?
The Banks might have been "responsible", but was anything making them accept that responsibility?
I went through differant incidents with this personaly in the 80's, 90's, and in 2007.
It was the best in 2007, the other two times I got nothing put back into my account until I satisfied the Banks burdon of proof requirements.
In 2007 I was told that any reported fraudulent or un-authorized charge is put back in my account in less than 48 hours. When I asked how this worked, I was told recent legislation made it mandatory. Was the Bank Manager at PNC mis-informed also? :w00t:
😎
June 22, 2011 at 2:19 pm
SanDroid (6/22/2011)
Ross McMicken (6/22/2011)
Uh, no. Banks have been responsible for forged checks for decades, especially if you reported the loss of the checks. As for credit cards, consumers in the US have been responsible for only $50 in unauthorized charges if card loss was reported for as long as I can remember, which is back into the 70's.not being sarcastic, if you know please share. I like to learn.
Why did we need the "Check 21" legislation that was not put in place untill 2006?
Why was there an out cryfor reform, especialy when the Banks started pushing everyone to stop using cash?
The Banks might have been "responsible", but was anything making them accept that responsibility?
I went through differant incidents with this personaly in the 80's, 90's, and in 2007.
It was the best in 2007, the other two times I got nothing put back into my account until I satisfied the Banks burdon of proof requirements.
In 2007 I was told that any reported fraudulent or un-authorized charge is put back in my account in less than 48 hours. When I asked how this worked, I was told recent legislation made it mandatory. Was the Bank Manager at PNC mis-informed also? :w00t:
😎
The limit on cards is shown here: http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-1350.html in Section 908. That's been law since 1978 in the current form.
The responsibility for forged checks is in the Uniform Commercial Code. The UCC has been around since the 1950's, and has been adopted in one form or another by all 50 states.
Check 21 was mostly about check clearing and negotiation. The Act did specify how quickly institutions have to replace the funds in your account after an error or fraud. In the past, they could wait until after the investigation was complete.
June 22, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Ross McMicken (6/22/2011) The Act did specify how quickly institutions have to replace the funds in your account after an error or fraud. In the past, they could wait until after the investigation was complete.
That brings back memories. In the 90's it took a year for an "investigation" to complete and then only after I agreed to take $.50 for each dollar. This did not feel to me like responsibility was being taken. I would bet you Pizza or Beer I am not alone in my feelings.
This all fits nicely into this discussion.
Better legislation and regulation caused the financial consumer to experiance the correct effect that laws passed in the 70's where made to create.
Let's do more of that before we start extending Jail and penalties for Hackers.
Usually the only ones caught are people doing the online equivalent of dialing 911 from inside someones house after they find it unlocked. 😎
June 23, 2011 at 2:31 am
Sounds like the consumer in usa has not had much protection and the banks has not been willing to take care of their customers. Weird, one would think that the banks would compete for their customers..
From one thing to a completely other thing, I watched Michles Moores film about usa's health insurance companies.. It's hard to know how much of what was shown from usa is true and common since I live in Sweden but I really hope that is something which will improve. I often get the feeling that the companies in usa does not compete and care for their customers, does not feel like a working market economy, when I read news. This view of mine seams to fit well into how you describe how your banks treats their customers.
June 23, 2011 at 7:49 am
IceDread (6/23/2011)
Sounds like the consumer in usa has not had much protection and the banks has not been willing to take care of their customers. Weird, one would think that the banks would compete for their customers...
Banks used to compete for customers by giving away cheep toasters or offering free checking. Now everybody has (or should have) free checking, and cheep toasters are useless. I lived in Europe for 5 years in the late eighties. I was amazed then how different the Financial, Health, and Energy industries were.
Their are many industries in America that are a joke.
IMO: The last 6 years have shined an ugly spotlight on the Financial, Health Care, and Energy Industry. Guess which three Industries spend the most money Lobbying our Government for the reduction of regulation?
Anyway, my entire point is that regulations are like good intent. Useless without action.
June 23, 2011 at 1:19 pm
The Italians reckon there are 3 ways to get rich.
Complex regulation is great for lawyers. Marry a lawyer quick!
If regulations were written as "How to comply for dummies" then their ease of adoption would make them a success. My point is that it takes a lawyer to understand them and a judge to decide the interpretation of their application.
In the UK a number of banks were bailed out by the tax payer. In the same year the bankers were payed immense bonuses "we don't want to lose our best talent". That would be the talent that screwed up the financial system of the Western World would it!?!?!?!?
I see the banks attitude as being similar to the American car manufacturer who calculated that the cost of being sued for death caused by faulty vehicles was cheaper than fixing the fault. "Unsafe at any speed", Ralph Nadir.
June 23, 2011 at 1:31 pm
David.Poole (6/23/2011)
In the UK a number of banks were bailed out by the tax payer. In the same year the bankers were payed immense bonuses "we don't want to lose our best talent". That would be the talent that screwed up the financial system of the Western World would it!?!?!?!?
Reminds me of this: http://www.softwarequalityconnection.com/2011/05/i-like-my-it-budget-tight-and-my-developers-stupid/ ?I’m concerned that if people know what they’re doing, they’ll leave. And if they don’t know what they’re doing, they’ll stay,”
Or the extended copyright laws. "We build great content and need to protect it forever to make profits." If you can build great content, do that. Let someone else build on yours after a few years.
June 23, 2011 at 2:03 pm
SanDroid (6/23/2011)
IceDread (6/23/2011)
Sounds like the consumer in usa has not had much protection and the banks has not been willing to take care of their customers. Weird, one would think that the banks would compete for their customers...Banks used to compete for customers by giving away cheep toasters or offering free checking. Now everybody has (or should have) free checking, and cheep toasters are useless. I lived in Europe for 5 years in the late eighties. I was amazed then how different the Financial, Health, and Energy industries were.
Their are many industries in America that are a joke.
IMO: The last 6 years have shined an ugly spotlight on the Financial, Health Care, and Energy Industry. Guess which three Industries spend the most money Lobbying our Government for the reduction of regulation?
Anyway, my entire point is that regulations are like good intent. Useless without action.
I see.
The energy market, electricity in particular is very expensive in Sweden, so that issue we do have in common I believe. Gasoline is also very expensive in Sweden, our taxes on gasoline is huge.. you have to pay about two usa dollars for 1L, I bet that might be what you pay for a full gallon!
June 28, 2011 at 3:29 pm
Yes, right on. Immediate public disclosure. That way the consumer can make an informed decision without creating another govt regulatory body.
June 16, 2015 at 7:21 am
Looking at some of the posts on this topic I think there are some serious holes here that need to be thought about: first, catch hackers - okay fine. What happens when the hack is international in origin? Nice to have a regulation - shame on the hacker, but what can happen to the hacker(s)?
Next fine offenders, yeah - when Wells Fargo / Bank of America / etc gets caught for something and fined by the SEC what happens? New fees for their customers. How is that punishing the true offenders?
How about a bit of a paradigm shift? Back when, one of my neighbors worked for IBM. They had an interesting system - when you called in (showing the age of this process) you logged in then the system hung up. What happened - the next part of the process started: the system called you back at the number on file. Kind of made hacking the system really tough. I mean you hack the system and then what do you get - nothing.
The drawback to that system is todays user population is mobile and wants access from where ever, whenever. I hate it when somebody tells me crime is bad, but can offer no solution. Which is kind of what I've just done but I don't think that more regulations or regulations that are worded so vaguely that they can't be inforced is the direction to move.
June 16, 2015 at 7:25 am
Hacking databases has become so common, it's as if the people doing the hacking are some of the same people who develope the networking infrastructure, applications, and database systems in the first place. Of course many of these large corporations don't even know all the faceless individuals who touch their code.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 17, 2015 at 12:36 pm
First: The government has been captured by the very corporations it's supposed to regulate.
Second: The IT management in the public sector is equally incompetent.
Third: The programming languages and frameworks weren't designed to be secure.
Last: It would take an extreme amount of money and effort to correct these issues and no one is really interested.
June 22, 2015 at 8:43 am
chrisn-585491 (6/17/2015)
First: The government has been captured by the very corporations it's supposed to regulate.Second: The IT management in the public sector is equally incompetent.
Third: The programming languages and frameworks weren't designed to be secure.
Last: It would take an extreme amount of money and effort to correct these issues and no one is really interested.
The part about expense, effort, and inadequate tools are all typical excuse that department heads would use to cover their *** when sitting in front of Congress and asked to explain what happened. However, I don't believe it would take extreme amounts of money and effort to correct the security issues. A lot of this is the result of misconfiguration, poor implementation, and just plain incompetence.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
June 23, 2015 at 7:02 am
A lot of this is the result of misconfiguration, poor implementation, and just plain incompetence.
Most of which can be explained by poor leadership and management.
Currently I get to argue with clients that think 4 TB is a huge amount of disk space and costs a fortune. These are the same people that have no problem picking up a $2,000 bar tab on a regular basis....
:angry:
June 25, 2015 at 8:07 am
It's funny reading this old article now in 2015. This problem is never going away.
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