July 18, 2002 at 3:48 am
I've been a DBA off and on for 6 years now, and I'd say 80% of my time is smooth sailing. But the other 20% is spent banging my head against the wall. I appreciate what MS has given us in terms of product capabilities, but the bugs... what other industry would release a new product before fixing so many outstanding problems with their old product? And to top it off, introduce a whole new slew of bugs with the new product?
So, tell me if your experience is similar, and whether you love 'em or hate 'em....
July 18, 2002 at 6:06 am
The auto industry is just as bad. But as for Microsoft, I personally do not full like or trust MS even thou I like a lot of the products produced by the company. Some of the recent requests they have made to have laws inacted going even as far as trying to have open source banned with the new copy protection laws being discussed, have made me and several of my coworkers come to the realization that MS needs to be watched and kept from getting much more powerfull than they are now.
"Don't roll your eyes at me. I will tape them in place." (Teacher on Boston Public)
July 18, 2002 at 8:45 am
It's not a single company problem, it's an industry problem.
Case in point: Oracle releases 9i and declares it unbreakable. Litchfield proves that to be a very flawed statement (which falls in the "Duh, that was going to happen" category). Oracle says, "No, Litchfield didn't prove we're unbreakable!"
There are quite a few software products out there which are released buggy. It's probably impossible to catch ALL bugs before a complex application is deemed ready. There are just things which aren't even considered for testing (which fall in the category of "Who would have thought someone would try THAT?!?"). In other cases, interactions between several complex apps cause issues.
I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, especially after the way they licensed their OS (which caused OSes like GeOS and OS2 unable to compete). However, what needs to be realized is Microsoft isn't the only one. Two recent examples, both with feet in the Open Source world:
- Netscape 6.0
- Redhat Linux 7.0
K. Brian Kelley
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
July 18, 2002 at 10:13 am
It's a gredy human issue. E Coli outbreaks in Colorado meat packers and USDA is somewhat either in bed or influenced by them.
Enron (need we say more), Worldcom, etc.
Greed in sports is wrecking the games I grew up with and it gets worse.
Auto companies (and drug companies), release products with issues and do everything possible to not ackowledge the issues (Pintos, Phen-phen, numerous examples).
Computer companies (mostly the execs), get greedy and are driven by power, not $$. Most of these guys have more $$ than they know what to do with, but they want to prestige and power of being #1.
MS actually has good support and while I get frustrated by the bugs, especially the ones they know about but aren't on Technet or KB, I also understand they drag their feet to increase revenues and the prestige of the company. Overall, their products do improve and it does take $$ for the worker bees to fix them.
Keep in mind, no software will be bug free. Especially the big, complex ones. Even Linux has had issues, though the open-ness of the products usually leads to less of tehm, it also encourages disclosure and no press comes from "covering up". You can bet if the Open-SSH was delivered by Sun, there would be some denying it as long as possible.
Steve Jones
July 30, 2002 at 3:39 am
"Overall, their products do improve and it does take $$ for the worker bees to fix them."
http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/12/pf/agenda_msft/
It's a shame that a company with $40 billion in cash doesn't spend more toward fixing huge bug lists for their products.
July 30, 2002 at 10:04 am
They are. I think the message is out that security and stability are more important than features. Notice .NEt server went RC1 the other day. Was supposed to be gold a few months ago.
Steve Jones
July 30, 2002 at 11:45 am
Love 'em
and
Hate 'em - or better yet nervous about where they are going which is everywhere.
Consider the ease in which we are able to maintain a DBMS as compared to what Oracle DBA's go through. Granted it has been a few years but from what I remember there was no Oracle DBA that could manage 18 servers with 100 Databases (not that I don't need help cause I do). For this MS gets high marks in my book. Nice thing is there is no perf sacrifice.
Downside to MS is that they are getting way too much information from me on a continual basis. I am waiting for them to log my shower singing in the a.m. Hook them up with our new Government Security agency and we will have George Orwell alive and well. Sorry for the Big Brother spin but that is what it appears to be.
So, love them for the work environment, hate them from the privacy environment (and I don't even do anything illegal).
Just my opinion.
David
David
@SQLTentmaker“He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose” - Jim Elliot
July 31, 2002 at 10:19 am
On the plus side their products tend to aim for usability.
On the downside is that their are some very powerful features in competitors products that I wish Microsoft would implement.
Also, Plato said word to the effect that people who think alike tend not to think very much at all.
With Microsoft have 90+% of the OS/Office market where is the drive for innovation.
July 31, 2002 at 9:28 pm
I'd have to say I'm divided on the subject.
I've been around IT for a long while (remember the portables back in the early '80s that were bigger than your dad's toolbox, and running software from different vendors under DOS platforms), and the capabilities that have come forward with time are pretty amazing.
While I personally don't like the idea of a virtual monopoly on the market, and how MS is the brand to have, I've got to say that the options I have available to me business-wise are pretty damn good. There's a lot of us out there with different needs and requirements - if I think "I know what would be really good - software that ordered me coffee and a croissant for morning tea", more than likely I'd find the software already available. It may be in an early form, but it's out there. And it'll plug into whatever I've got. And there'll probably be online support for it too.
I don't know if we'll ever be bug-free; I remember in my Testing course on software that every time you make a change, you have to test everything again from scratch, to achieve a perfect product. This creates a potential exponential exercise for software release, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds testing monotonous.... 🙂
Love the technology, hate the monopoly. If only vendors could agree on some standards....<sigh>
August 2, 2002 at 1:11 am
Every OS Sucks!!!
Hey, even good ol' DOS had limits and bugs. It seems as though people have forgotten that computers are just machines. What you put in is what you get out.
I've only been a DBA for two years now and I often find that if you have a problem with a computer it is because you are expecting it to think for you.
MS, IBM, Sun, Mac, Linux Vendors (such as Red Hat) they are all in it for the money and trying to be #1. MS is usually the one with the most flack because it is easier to target the biggest. Heck, even calculators give errors. You don't see people shooting down casio or philips because their calculators are buggy.
I don't like MS, especially because they are putting their pocket before their customers and not giving people what they really want (although they promise it all the time).
I guess if everyone had such a problem with MS they'd all be using Mac's by now.
A non-technology-loving geek
Keith
"It makes me want to run around the Server Room in a Super-Hero Costume"
"It makes me want to run around the Server Room in a Super-Hero Costume"
August 6, 2002 at 1:41 pm
I am very thankful to Microsoft for making SQL Server so simple to use. This allowed me to move from installing Windows NT software to being a SQL programmer/DBA. I enjoy my job which could be attributed to Microsoft for making software that is perceived as simple so that companies are willing to put someone to administering SQL Server even though they have little or no experience. Thats how I started.
Thankfully, we haven't had too much problems with all the bugs in the product, so I don't have much in the way of complaints there.
I think it would be nice to have more DB and OS competition to help drive down prices and increase the need for more functionality.
Robert Marda
SQL Server will deliver its data any way you want it
when you give your SQL Programmer enough developing time.
Robert W. Marda
Billing and OSS Specialist - SQL Programmer
MCL Systems
August 6, 2002 at 6:51 pm
Microsoft is getting me more and more disgruntled. Someone needs to start a betting pool on how many more vulnerabilities will be found in SQL Server 2000 before Yukon releases. Between the buffer overruns and the recent UDP 1434 issue...
K. Brian Kelley
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bkelley/
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
August 7, 2002 at 6:49 am
Brian, I agree. For grins, here's the current standings of the previous service packs:
SQL 6.5
SP139
SP286
SP368
SP422
SP5a120
Post5a36
Total371
SQL 7.0
SP174
SP2199
SP3242
Total515
SQL 2000
SP1336
SP2116
Hotfixes 79
Total531
I'd say the trend is definately moving up. And these are only the bugs they fixed. How many bugs are unresolved and outstanding? Is there a count out there for these?
BTW, anyone know how Oracle, DB2, or Sybase compares?
August 30, 2002 at 10:38 am
Well I basically have to say I luv'em. But they are far from perfect.
The 2 things I give them most credit for is
Standardizing. Windows is Windows, almost any app has the same basic look and feel, so I can move from app to ap with limited struggling. I'm not pointing to MS Apps any others out there.
Interconnectivity.
You can still connect a 98 machine to a 2k network. Heck IBM can't really interconnect z/OS / AIX / AS400 etc. So I have different passwords on each. Moving files from one to the other is a riot, there are kludge's around that allow me to do it but they all different and each has quircks (?).
And don't get me started on UDB the tinker toy version of DB2. AIX or NT it comes close to a joke. Can't get all the bugs out, hey how about getting the basic bugs out before you add new features. I have to support SQL Server, and UDB on NT and AIX. I can demo 20 things I can fix for you on SQL while on the phone with you that would take hours on UDB.
Here's a couple :
Go into the CC and select ALTER VIEW, do actually try to alter it.
Add a NOT null field to a EMPTY table.
Heck just try restoring a backup to a different server.
Oh and UDB doesn't do "On-line" backups so if you restore from an backup taken while the DB is in use, you need all of the logs.
Performance, On NT figure MS has 3 to 10 (yes 10) times the performance.
Take a 300 meg table, update 2 fields and consume 500 meg of log space. Oh by the way UDB logs are basically fixed size. You can provide it lots of secondaries, but it's kinda ugly. FYI the update runs in 2 min 30, except if it runs out of logs, 15 minutes THEN abends out of space.
I also love the IBM website, search get 10 results, 1 to 10 shown, hit Next Page (why is it even shown) and it abends.
Makes you real confident in their ability to build a website.
Well I could go on and on and on, but you get the idea.
FYI I'been in this industry for 30 years, most as a techie, most working on IBM Software MF IMS/CICS/MVS/DOSVSE. So I made my living off them, I just don't uderstand why they produce tools etc that is still as easy to use as a card punch.
klk, MCSE
KlK
September 2, 2002 at 9:44 am
Just like the old quote "Democracy is a bad form of Governement, but consider, the others are so much worse. MS gave us standardisation and firmly entrenched the culture of 'ease of use' Generally they adhere to those principals.
The fact that they may also sometimes behave like money-grabbing, Luddite vandals should remind us that you can always rely on human-nature!
I have found it is possible to please all of the people all of the time if you do exactly what they want. Harold Macmillan 1961
I have found it is possible to please all of the people all of the time if you do exactly what they want. Harold Macmillan 1961
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