Meeting Expectations
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I saw this piece recently about and it caught my eye. It talks about someone who researches resumes and CVs for companies to be sure that their employees are providing accurate information. The article talks a bit about the consequences of less than honorable employees and the efforts that employers go to when ferreting out these less than honest interviewees.
There was one amazing stat in there: that 2/3 of the companies that bother to check references rescind employment offers. I'm not sure if that speaks to the fact that not enough companies check references or that those that sense something wrong decide to take the time to check.
Originally I was thinking to ask something along the lines of have you ever lied on your resume, but since employers and employees alike post here, I'm not sure that would be fair. So to keep a more positive note, this week's poll is ...
How often does someone live up to their resume?
There, that's much better than the negative of that statement.
I'd like to think that most people live up to their resumes. Truthful, accurate, or not, I think that most people I've interviewed and hired could do most of the work that was listed on their resumes. Probably that if they couldn't I wouldn't have hired them.
If you put it on your resume, or you open your mouth and say something about it, then it's fair game. In my interview you better be able to answer a question on it. I know I've written this before, but I'm careful what goes on my resume. I have "C" on there, but I'm honest enough to say I can read and write C code in small doses, like simple utility doses. Anything beyond a command line isn't something I would trust myself to handle, at least not as my primary job. If you want some big red button to appear that people can click to run my command line .... 🙂
So what do you think? If you've seen someone's resume and interviewed them, have they been able to stand up to their resume?
Steve Jones
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God no, we're busy recruiting for a junior level DBA/SYSADMIN right now and of the 10 or so people we've had in for interview (the ones that looked good on paper), I'd say that only 3-4 of them actually had the skills they were supposed to be extremely proficient in.
It's a fact of life that a lot of people embelish a little on their CV, but I agree that if you include it then you need to make sure you know enough about it to answer whatever question people like me would ask you about.
It's a real breath of fresh air to actually get an interviewee that lives up to his CV
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I think people list every single thing they have ever touched on their CVs just to get a reasonable key word hit rate. Recruiters then find a few key words and send you to an interview for a position that is not at all what you are looking for.
I once interviewed a guy for a SQL / Software support role. His CV claimed 10 years experience on SQL and SAP - sounded like exactly what I needed. I sat him down behind a PC and asked him to get a list of customers from the Northwind database using query analyser - he couldn't. Turns out he used to help people capture transactions on a SQL based SAP system but never actually connected to a database directly before. Quite a big difference between knowing how to operate the front end of a SQL based application and understanding the database back end...
Just to put something else out there: How aften does a company live up to their Job Advertisement? Ever seen one that says "Huge sucker required to take responsibility for previous incompetent IT manager's undocumented chaotic environment" or "Programmer required to achieve the impossible"
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I hired one programmer with a pedigree and an entire wall of certifications. No problem with any interview question either. Problem was, he couldn't produce unless I sat on him all day long (even with decent requirements) - too much overhead for me. Plaques are nice but I would rather have someone with some self-motivation (e.g. self-preservation). I find this attribute in people who truly care about what they do. You just can’t really know until you test drive someone for a few months. Give me someone that doesn't know everything but can quickly find out what they need to know.
It's not what you know but what you can do with what you know.
-Semper Gumbi
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While looking for a job I found out the following fact:
Everyone lies on their resume. The ones that don't are stupid and miss out chances.
I wasn't prepared to lie on my resume, but I brightened it up - just like Steve said with his skills in C. I added every skill I had, even if it was marginal.
Why should you be totally honest if everyone else isn't? When you have no job and no money, nobody cares if you've always been honest...
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Confession first, rant second. I put a single lie on my resume once about 12 years ago. I got caught and lost a great job because of it. Ever since then, nothing but absolute truth.
As to people who fill in every possible skill set where they've been in the room when the software was mentioned... I'm going to ask you questions about it in the interview. If you can't back it up, that goes into the interview notes. When it comes down to you & some other person of equal skill set, we're going to look at who lied to us and knock you out of the running. You will lose a sweet opportunity because you lied. Don't do it.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore RooseveltAuthor of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning -
OK, I don't lie on my resume, but I am quick to point out to the person that's interviewing where I am very strong as opposed to just fair in a technology.
That said, why do people that interview you think you could not meet their requirements unless you have worked specifically within the confines of their particular needs. All complex IT jobs from DBA to Software Developer require that the individuals have time to come up to speed on the history of what you've established as the "correct" way to do things within your organization.
For example, if your an excellent Oracle DBA and my need is for a MS SQL Server DBA, then you can learn what you need to know about SQL Server in a short time and be an asset to my team. If your a lousy DBA, then no database vendor is going to make you a good one.
If you have developed complex software applications in the past, then you can use the language, and methodology that we have determined are best for our needs and be a viable member on our team. If your a lousy, non-productive, un-creative, lazy, etc., developer then no amount of cool tech lingo is going to make you a good software developer.
I'll tell you a little secret... When you write software, you don't start with "Good morning HAL". All the neat cool stuff is happening behind your eyeballs, and it's coming out through your finger tips, not through you pie hole
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Is there suposed to be a link to the article that Steve is referring to in the editorial? I don't see any. Sounds like an interesting article.
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Apologies, forgot to link in the article.
http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/opinion-pieces/the-cv-detectives/
On lying, using "C" on my resume isn't lying becuase I've written C utilities. A long time ago and I'd be rusty, but I could do it. However I disclose that in the interview if someone asks. I'm not going to get in over my head nor am I coding any complex XPs.
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I have a habit, if I'm sitting in on an interview, of asking a very difficult question related to the position that the person's applying for.
I'm not necesarily looking for the right answer, I'm looking for an honest answer. It's amazing how often an intterviewee will assume that he nows more than the people doing the interviewing.
I once sat in on an interview with someone claimng to be an expert in SQL Server performance tuning. He didn't know the differenece between a clustered and a non clustered index. He didn't know the difference between an index seek and an index scan. I could accept that for many positions, but not from someone claiming to an expert in performance tuning.
I don't lie on my CV. I try not to exagerate too much. I got a job at my current company thanks to word-of-mouth and since I've recieved several offers from other companies based on the same. Jobs come and go, reputation is forever.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
Same thing we do. As someone else said, you can't expect someone to have every aspect of the details of your own development & design process down walking in from outside the company. No. But I can sure as heck expect someone applying to a senior position to know how deadlocks work, for example. I had an interviewee perfectly explain blocking when asked about deadlocks. When I pointed that out, he started to argue. Guess what? He didn't get the position. Was it because he didn't know which traceflag to set to get the deadlock information into the error log (trivia best answered by "I'd look it up on BOL")? No, he didn't know what a deadlock was a fundamental level and then reinforced his ignorance by arguing about it.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore RooseveltAuthor of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning -
I won't lie on a resume or in an interview - dumbest thing you can do. You'll always get caught on it eventually (learned that when I was a kid, never forgot!
) And I won't put every programming language I ever skimmed by on a resume either. I'll address the major ones; the others can be mentioned in the interview if necessary. I agree with Paul B, it's what you can do with what you know.Have I missed out on any great opportunities? I wouldn't know - I've not been in the job market long enough to find out, I guess. When you have multiple offers to choose from, that would indicate you've got the skills that companies value. So pick the company that most closely matches YOUR values.
And it's not just the programming languages that companies look for - any good programmer will pick up a new language in a short time. It's the "soft" skills that often make the difference - decent writing skills, team player, handles stress well, self-motivated, reasonable communication skills. Most companies, in my experience, don't want to train for soft skills, but are willing to (at some level) for programming skills.
I've been co-interviewer for several positions on my team in the past, and it was more often "fits with the team" that was a deciding factor when skills were comparable. In a small team environment, that can be critical.
Here there be dragons...,Steph Brown
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An interesting subject. My thoughts are this: I have always exceeded expectations in my career with every employer. The unfortunate fact of life is that they, the employers, seldom live up to their own expectations. Its not sour grapes, its just reality. It all boils down to 'free choice' on the employees part. That choice being to live up to what you are and to choose if and when to leave an employer when they do not live up to what they are.
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
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I did not lie on my resume. I never even put down the skill I have if I just attended the class or less than 6 months experience. Actually I think I put a lot less down on my resume, liked I actually have some DBA skills - application DBA, but I never put it down on my resume because I never held that title. This caused me to lose some job opportunity. But sometime I feel there is a grey line of developer and DBA, I do a lot of developer works, and I do some DBA work, only application DBA work, it is hard to explain to the company espeically if the one who interviews you does not have any database experience.
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I wrote about this on my blog. I think people should be tested on what they say they know. If they don't pass the test, they don't get the job. It's pretty simple to test people on things, and I don't know why more places don't do it. However, I think 'certifications' are basically worthless. The test should be an actual skills test. Sit the person down and have them perform the task. None of the major certifications require you to do that, so it's possible to pass the tests without being able to do any of the associated tasks. It's like knowing the meaning of every word in a foreign language, but still not being able to speak the language.
My blog: http://smoothjazzy.blogspot.com/
The article you should read is called "IT Job Market Sucks", and is in response to a Monster forum complaint about how hard it is to find a job in IT. It's not because the jobs aren't there... just read the blog
Yes, people lie on their resumes, and it's making the HR department suspicious of our entire field.
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