April 20, 2010 at 7:24 am
Hello all, been a while since I checked in...the survey had only 12 respondents despite the fact that it was sent out to a lot of people. Majority prefer a PASS administered cert with test, interview with 3-4 member panel at a local chapter.
As far as MS goes..i talked to an MS evangelist who spoke on conditions of anonymity - MS cannot possibly come up with a 'mid level' cert just for SQL Server. Their test model is across several platforms and they have no immediate or even short term plans of revamping it to include a mid level cert although they do not deny there is interest at several levels for one. It is a huge project and will take lot of time to get approved even if it does. He also claimed that the MCM is not as big a cash cow as we think since the number of participants are real small and the administrative costs are huge especially trainer fees.He also said no one in consulting should worry about losing money on it since their consulting fees practically double after it is completed. I disagreed with that but that was the perspective.
As far as PASS goes I don't know why the silence but am guessing it is two things - there was an effort before and wherever it is is confidential and not ready to be shared right now, two it is a huge admin overhead (I have worked/run trainings before so am not underestimating that) and considering the fees to be nominal the budget has to come from somewhere...am guessing that is not going to be easy.
I am thinking PASS is our best bet anyways for something like this, so we must consider something like perhaps a round table discussion during the conference with some board members. We can ask for that a little later and see what happens.
Just some thoughts. Thanks.
April 20, 2010 at 7:30 am
CirquedeSQLeil (4/19/2010)
WayneS (4/19/2010)
Jeff Moden (4/19/2010)
Good. Because of my inherent distrust in all the other certifications, I'd like to see this one materialize provided that less fortunate folks can actually afford to attain it. We need a good and trusted cert that folks just can't get away with buying/cheating and still knowing nothing.I had previously intended to not get involved in anything having to do with the MCJ cert but the things that I've seen from folks (especially lately) with letters after their name makes me want to get involved for the sake of the art and the industry.
I'm definitely glad to have your opinions. We just need to get others involved, and I'm pretty curious as to why others aren't posting here. My initial thought is that the few that have been continually posting are doing such a great job that they don't feel they need to post to say "me too".
.... then I consider those that have been posting, and realize that there must be a different reason - the others would state their opinion.
We really want your input Jeff. I think your opinion on this topic will bring value and help keep the certification steered in a positive direction.
I had sent an email off to PASS to try and get it forwarded out to the Chapter Leaders - but nothing materialized with it. I tried three times to follow up and it seems my emails are getting lost in a black hole somewhere. My concern there is that if PASS is not interested and MS is not interested - then we have an even bigger hurdle to clear.
Thanks for the well wishes.
If we can't get anyone to "front" the effort, do you think it's possible to start a new "front"? ie: A group of concerned SQL "citizens" dedicated to the art?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 20, 2010 at 9:29 am
I think the silence from PASS is a lack of resources. They are working on transitioning SQL Saturday, which is a higher priority than most other things. Plus they have all the running of the conferences, 24 hours, etc.
Likely they would front it, but it would need a good sized committee to get it up, do some beta testing, work out bugs, etc. At that point, if it can be fairly revenue neutral I'm sure they would support it.
April 20, 2010 at 10:00 am
Steve Jones - Editor (4/20/2010)
I think the silence from PASS is a lack of resources. They are working on transitioning SQL Saturday, which is a higher priority than most other things. Plus they have all the running of the conferences, 24 hours, etc.Likely they would front it, but it would need a good sized committee to get it up, do some beta testing, work out bugs, etc. At that point, if it can be fairly revenue neutral I'm sure they would support it.
Okay, so how many of us would be willing to step up and work on something like this? How many hours a week could some of us come up with outside of work and life? My schedule right now is really fluid with soccer season on going. For instance until 3:55 PM yesterday I had no high school games until Thursday, ended up with a game yesterday and I have another today. My daughter has a game tomorrow at 4:30 I want to go watch and my youngest has church (AWANA's) as well.
Let's see, I may be able to come up with a couple of late night hours each night, say 8:30 to 10:30 PM MDT.
April 20, 2010 at 10:17 am
Lynn Pettis (4/20/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (4/20/2010)
I think the silence from PASS is a lack of resources. They are working on transitioning SQL Saturday, which is a higher priority than most other things. Plus they have all the running of the conferences, 24 hours, etc.Likely they would front it, but it would need a good sized committee to get it up, do some beta testing, work out bugs, etc. At that point, if it can be fairly revenue neutral I'm sure they would support it.
Okay, so how many of us would be willing to step up and work on something like this? How many hours a week could some of us come up with outside of work and life? My schedule right now is really fluid with soccer season on going. For instance until 3:55 PM yesterday I had no high school games until Thursday, ended up with a game yesterday and I have another today. My daughter has a game tomorrow at 4:30 I want to go watch and my youngest has church (AWANA's) as well.
Let's see, I may be able to come up with a couple of late night hours each night, say 8:30 to 10:30 PM MDT.
I am willing to shell out some hours too. Do we have any more takers?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 20, 2010 at 10:22 am
I can commit to about half an hour daily or 3 hours per week.
April 20, 2010 at 10:33 am
Well, so far we have three. We definately need more people for this, here is your opportunity to work on something for the benefit of the MS SQL Server Community.
April 20, 2010 at 10:34 am
I can commit some time to help review things. Not sure it's a steady per day, but time every week is doable.
If we can outline a structure and build some types of tests, I would think this could be a "fun" beta at the PASS Summit. I'm sure PASS would give us a room to experiment on some people.
April 20, 2010 at 10:37 am
Steve Jones - Editor (4/20/2010)
I can commit some time to help review things. Not sure it's a steady per day, but time every week is doable.If we can outline a structure and build some types of tests, I would think this could be a "fun" beta at the PASS Summit. I'm sure PASS would give us a room to experiment on some people.
I like your thinking there. Running a beta at PASS Summit - that would be a big way to get the word out. To build the tests, do we go with an already built testing package, or do we create a new one, or do we setup a lab with requirements and then grade the individual labs manually?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 20, 2010 at 10:41 am
I would think that any tests we came up with right now would be static tests. Probably almost require essay style answers. Not sure people would be interested in that type of test, plus it would be difficult to process programatically.
Biggest thing right now is getting the commitment from enough people in the SQL Server community. We are up to 4 now, and that really isn't enough.
April 20, 2010 at 10:44 am
I could also probably contribute some time each week, though probably not daily... more a night here/there or weekend type of thing... Just let me know what you need and when you need it and I'll jump in where I can.
A beta room at PASS would be interesting, though unfortunately I am not going to be attending the conference as long as it's hosted on the West Coast and I'm with my current employer.
-Luke.
April 20, 2010 at 10:46 am
Agreed - we need more than four people to help with this. Four people working part-time on this project would take far too long to make real progress.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 20, 2010 at 10:47 am
Luke L (4/20/2010)
I could also probably contribute some time each week, though probably not daily... more a night here/there or weekend type of thing... Just let me know what you need and when you need it and I'll jump in where I can.A beta room at PASS would be interesting, though unfortunately I am not going to be attending the conference as long as it's hosted on the West Coast and I'm with my current employer.
-Luke.
Thanks Luke. That brings us to five.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 20, 2010 at 10:48 am
I'll post an announcement or two and see what I can get going.
April 20, 2010 at 10:50 am
With Luke on board we are up to 5. Still need more to help spread out the work load.
So, how are we going to coordinate what needs to be done if we get enough people (and how many is enough)?
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