May 1, 2010 at 10:00 am
CirquedeSQLeil (4/29/2010)
Lynn Pettis (4/29/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/29/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (4/29/2010)
I went back and looked at the wording in Jeff's draft. The issue there is that many of us borrow code for others and use it. That could be seen as an issue here. I think in terms of defining this, you might need to more explicitly use something along the lines of giving credit and having permission.There are many nuances with code making it difficult to police any plagiarism in that regard. One of the issues being that it is quite possible for two people to write the same piece of code but have no connection between the two, or to never have seen one another's code (in terms of SQL, and with relative possibility with other compiled languages). When dealing with code, we would need to pursue cautiously.
I think, in regards to plagiarism, our concern is more on the publication of articles, presentations, etc, that builds one's reputation rather than the use of code (not to diminish that as well). In this regard, it would be easier to police as has been demonstrated by some of the discussions recently when such plagiarism has been discovered.
I would take it a step further, we would be concerned with plagiarism of code if that code is used to build reputation through the publication of articles - it would have to be fairly obvious though. Beyond that, let's leave scripts and code out of it.
Besides, if one does nothing but copy code, I think that would be hashed out through the examination process and/or lab (hopefully).
CirquedeSQLeil (4/29/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (4/29/2010)
I went back and looked at the wording in Jeff's draft. The issue there is that many of us borrow code for others and use it. That could be seen as an issue here. I think in terms of defining this, you might need to more explicitly use something along the lines of giving credit and having permission.There are many nuances with code making it difficult to police any plagiarism in that regard. One of the issues being that it is quite possible for two people to write the same piece of code but have no connection between the two, or to never have seen one another's code (in terms of SQL, and with relative possibility with other compiled languages). When dealing with code, we would need to pursue cautiously.
Absolutely correct... and it's going to be a bugger. Copying an article or the exact verbage of a post without referential credit is plagiarism, period. Copying code directly and claiming it as your original idea is also plagiarism. Is changing variable/object names and doing a little reformatting still plagiarism? If you're claiming the IDEA as your own and you didn't independently come up with the idea, then yes.
Look at all the people that post code with Itzik's CTE method for building an inline, memory only Tally CTE. Is it plagiarism? It depends... the code was published in a copyrighted book but with the intention that people actually use the code. I'm, by no means, a copyright lawyer but if someone posts a solution in another book, article, presentation, or post that uses such code, is it plagarism? How about for "Nested Set Hierarchies" which is also (now) an old idea? What about my articles on SSC (all based on "prior art") or, for that matter, any articles written on SSC (also based on "prior art") by anyone?
While it may not fit the classic definition of "plagiarism" and even if you somehow avoided all the easily obtainable information available to the world about either method (above) and came up with the idea on your own, you would still be in trouble if you claimed the idea as your own. I certainly can't recite them, but I think the laws of "prior art" would seriously work against you on that.
Back to the subject of "policing for plagiarism". It's impossible to accomplish 100% effective policing even for the authors themselves. You DO have to look for it and considering all of the different media in the world today, it's absolutely impossible to accomplish 100% of the time. Soooo... what to do in regards to this new certification?
It's simple... first, an outright copy job of full context, even with giving due credit, may be plagiarism based on whether or not you have permission to do the copy. The rest is a matter of honor and that's one of the things the new cert must emphasize... honor. Unfortunately, honor is a much more difficult concept to enforce. The only thing that can be done is if a question of honor is found out, then honorable people will need to do some very good research and make a very well informed and honorable decision as to whether or not one of their peers should be defrocked or not.
That's the purpose of the language I used in the "oath". Laws already cover what is considered to be plagiarism and most of us aren't fit to interpret them. Certainly, I am not. That should be left up to a judge and the law (which certainly isn't out of the question for such blatant plagiarism). All we can do is judge our peers based on honor and intent and, being human, there needs to be some leeway for honorable people to make honorable decisions when it comes to the defrocking of a peer.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
May 2, 2010 at 12:20 pm
How about this one regarding ethics?
On freelancer.com, some one has posted a job looking for an experienced programmer to develop an SQL injection script for godfather points in mafia wars in facebook.
May 2, 2010 at 12:30 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (4/29/2010)
WayneS (4/29/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/29/2010)
The first site listed has email enabled such that an email sent to a specific mailbox will post the content immediately to the site for others to see and checkout. Besides, they are hosted in Colorado, which may give somebody a chance to visit the site and maybe cut a better deal.Now that sounds like a pretty useful feature.
Hopefully we can get some input from others soon on the topic.
I don't think they are hosted in Colorado, area code is 302, haven't looked to see where that is.
May 2, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Comparing two possible hosting sites, Aivea SharePoint Hosting and SharePointHosting.com, hard to really decide. Neither site really provides the necessary info to complete a good side byside comparision without requesting information from them.
If I were to go with Aivea, I'd probably look at the Advanced hosting planing for 39.95/month. They explicitly mention that they provide SharePoint Designer 2007 support, for one, which may be beneficial for customizing the site as we mover forward.
If we we went with SharePointHosting.com, I'd go with the Bronze package for $29.95/month.
Both companies indicate that they support Email enabled sites, which appears to be a highly desireable feature.
The biggest difference I see between the two is the amount of storage space provided. This ma be consideration as we move forward.
May 2, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Lynn Pettis (5/2/2010)
How about this one regarding ethics?On freelancer.com, some one has posted a job looking for an experienced programmer to develop an SQL injection script for godfather points in mafia wars in facebook.
That would be an immediate de-certification.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
May 2, 2010 at 7:57 pm
We can add space if needed. I'll look over both plans tomorrow as well and see what I think.
May 3, 2010 at 11:02 am
Steve Jones - Editor (5/2/2010)
We can add space if needed. I'll look over both plans tomorrow as well and see what I think.
Actually, that makes sense. Also, as a representative from the corporate sponsor, you could actually contact the two companies and get more direct answers to allow an apples to apples comparision.
May 3, 2010 at 11:05 am
Glad to see so much going on...been down with flu and allergies and just got in to work today. I don't know a whole lot about Sharepoint to comment one way or the other but Jeff's statement looks great. There has also been more activity on the survey front, will post details tonight. Thanks.
May 3, 2010 at 11:51 am
Lynn Pettis (5/3/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (5/2/2010)
We can add space if needed. I'll look over both plans tomorrow as well and see what I think.Actually, that makes sense. Also, as a representative from the corporate sponsor, you could actually contact the two companies and get more direct answers to allow an apples to apples comparision.
Besides the apples to apples comparison, I'm sure they would be willing to talk bargains and haggle a bit.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
May 3, 2010 at 11:52 am
dma-669038 (5/3/2010)
Glad to see so much going on...been down with flu and allergies and just got in to work today.
Hope you're feeling better!
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
May 3, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Only question I have, are those two the only ones we want to look at more closely? I know that a third one didn't impress a few of us, but have we perchance overlooked any other potential vendors, or these two good enough?
May 3, 2010 at 12:47 pm
I think those two are good enough. I looked at about 6 of them and those were the only two that impressed me.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
May 3, 2010 at 12:53 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (5/3/2010)
I think those two are good enough. I looked at about 6 of them and those were the only two that impressed me.
Sounds good to me, just thought I'd check.
May 4, 2010 at 5:36 pm
I just ran across this blog post. I think it could be useful.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
May 10, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Ok - it seems that we have really petered trying to get a sharepoint site.
Steve, let's go with http://www.fpweb.net/sharepoint-hosting/. I see minimal difference between the two. Each has advantages over the other. For me, I can access this one from work. Not so sure about the other one.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
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