October 28, 2014 at 10:58 am
FunkyDexter (10/28/2014)
...A team-mate?
Heck, I have! I think this sort of behaviour exists at all levels roughly equally. It's rare (most folks are pretty professional at all levels in my experience) but it happens.
And who says it's just about techies dealing with other techies. As often as not you're dealing with the call centre, the marketting department or HR. Heaven save me from having to extract a set of user requirements from every individual on the factory floor.
Been there. Pulled the Sheffield Steel our from between my vertebrae. Every barrel has a bad apple :'-(
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 28, 2014 at 12:17 pm
PatrickIndex (10/28/2014)
Don't managers create the politics in the first place? So if you didn't have managers then there would be no politics to deal with. Allowing managers to deal with the politics that they themselves have created sounds a bit like job creation to me.
No, even in the best environments, politics comes from different viewpoints for the best way to grow and/or sustain the business. For example, an argument between audit trying to make sure the company doesn't lose profits for minor mistakes that they can be fined for vs. the marketing department trying to grow new business quickly and nimbly, who think the minor fines are worth paying until they get established.
Now, you have a 4 man tech team that can do *1* of those jobs in the next 3 months, who should win? That's politics.
You're currently describing positional politics, which while they exist are simply part of the human condition, and typically happen in between the rest of it. Everyone wants to get ahead. That aside, remove the managers and someone still has to keep the floor organized. They're still 'managing', even if you don't title them... which causes resentment for the extra work they're doing. Otherwise it's just anarchy.
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October 28, 2014 at 1:34 pm
So much to say its hard to know where to begin.
Bad management and poor leadership begets bad management and poor leadership. Without deliberate efforts to stop it the Peter principle applies.
A route to being a manager may be a promotion from a tech leadership role. Without a clear steer on what is expected of a manager the newly promoted may flounder in their role. Unsure of how to proceed and having floundered for a few months there is the temptation to retreat to their comfort zone in the tech world, only now the world has moved on. They become a meddling manager rather than a useful manager.
Their self-esteem takes a knock and they become defensive and lack self-confidence. They are scared to admit weakness to their peers and afraid of appearing weak. Some will bail out but others will resort to empire building and politics.
I know it is a sweeping generalisation. Of the managers on this thread or people who know managers well how many of those managers received any training or mentoring on how to be a manager? Being an effective manager is a definite skillset requiring a certain mindset.
It is worth reading ALL of Patrick Lencioni's books. It'll take a weekend and you will learn far more about how to be a good manager in that weekend than you will in months if not years of being a manager. Look in particular at the "4 Obsessions of an extraordinary executive".
Patrick has a view on what causes negative politics in an office. It is when managers lack a shared vision and are unwilling or unable to share all pertinent facts and issues with their peers.
At one of the SQL Bits conferences Buck Woody and Kevin Klein held a career development evening seminar. Buck said that "No matter how talented an individual they can only achieve so much. An individual does not scale well therefore the only way for them to maintain their effectiveness is to make it possible for other people to excel". Follow that advice and you will at least gain the respect of your peers and probably be reasonably affective.
October 28, 2014 at 1:50 pm
I think managers are needed to deal with all the BS I don't need to worry about. Managers also exist to sell things that I can't always sell myself. They are the face, I am the body. Together, we keep moving in the right direction.
The one thing I hate is management clouds. I hate management clouds with a passion. What that basically means is a group of managers sitting in a cloud above a individual or a team shooting down lightning bolts (orders) to everyone. There is no universal strategy, they are sometimes still in silos even though they are still floating in the cloud together. They are the "perfect storm" just to screw everything up.
That said, I think good managers do exist and I have worked with them. Because of that, I feel we need more good leaders to keep the team motivated, on track and doing the things that needs to be done. That doesn't mean the team can't manage themselves. It just means that someone, whether it's the quarterback, the coach or both are sometimes needed to help make the plays with the team, not just by themselves.
October 28, 2014 at 3:49 pm
there are good managers, and there are bad managers. What I find interesting is that many in business love to watch sports, where the players are as critical to the team as the manager/coach. But once back in business, they think the players are less important than the managers.
The more you are prepared, the less you need it.
October 29, 2014 at 2:13 am
Andrew..Peterson (10/28/2014)
What I find interesting is that many in business love to watch sports, where the players are as critical to the team as the manager/coach. But once back in business, they think the players are less important than the managers.
That one always amuses me. A lot of what applies to getting a football (by which I mean soccer for those in the US) team's specialist roles to gel into a functional unit can apply to any group of specialists and the relative importance of player and manager is also worthy of note.
Some people don't seem to be able to abstract the principles from one scenario to the other, but mostly they don't want to as it doesn't fit with the dominant business mindset in most companies.
October 29, 2014 at 3:42 am
RP1966 (10/29/2014)
Andrew..Peterson (10/28/2014)
What I find interesting is that many in business love to watch sports, where the players are as critical to the team as the manager/coach. But once back in business, they think the players are less important than the managers.That one always amuses me. A lot of what applies to getting a football (by which I mean soccer for those in the US) team's specialist roles to gel into a functional unit can apply to any group of specialists and the relative importance of player and manager is also worthy of note.
Some people don't seem to be able to abstract the principles from one scenario to the other, but mostly they don't want to as it doesn't fit with the dominant business mindset in most companies.
This reminds me of the crossover period between amateur and professional sports i.e. the clubs started making money and did so as commercial entities whilst treating players as assets but still expected loyalty from the players and also expecting them to not hunt the money themselves.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
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