May 6, 2011 at 5:16 am
jstrauch 3024 (5/5/2011)
So Steve what would you recommend then for those poor souls? As being one of them it drives me nuts to constantly be told I can't get more training as it's not my true job position yet I'm responsible for making the databases work..
Some of the real pros in this forum will likely jump in with advice, but I can tell you that in my case, this forum saved our bacon. Our DBA wasn't fully trained and thought we were able to restore our databases to a point in time. Thanks to this forum, I found out that we couldn't and we now have a very good backup/restore mechanism in place. Also, we have purchased two SAN's, one of which will be used in our new DR site.
You can read the conversation here: http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic983007-1291-1.aspx"> http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic983007-1291-1.aspx
So, what I can suggest is to post the same question (perhaps in a new thread to start fresh because it's a new topic) . If your experience is like mine was, you'll get good, constructive advice that you can take to your management like I did.
I really hope this is of some help to you... I truly do feel for people in your situation. For the life of me, I can't understand why it happens so often.
May 6, 2011 at 5:51 am
jstrauch 3024 (5/5/2011)
So Steve what would you recommend then for those poor souls? As being one of them it drives me nuts to constantly be told I can't get more training as it's not my true job position yet I'm responsible for making the databases work. I'll be the first to admit I am not a DBA nor even a developer or have the skills those who are do, yet like it was mentioned smaller companies want a jack of all trades. I wish people would realize that now a days with the way technology is and how quickly it changes it's completely impossible to be a good 'jack of all trades' IT professional. Sure you can study like crazy and learn as much as you possibly can, just don't think of having a life then either.
You study the technologies you're using at the moment and keep enough knowledge of other techs so you can do them if you need to and study them when you start working with them. If they can't or won't send you to training for the tech, but you're responsible for making it work, you get some books and read and use the web to find answers. Then when you're putting together your resume you talk about all the great things you did at that job and when you go to interview, you mention that you trained yourself while doing it. Sure, that means you'll likely have to keep doing it at the new job, but you'll move up in level, abilities and pay.
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May 6, 2011 at 6:59 am
Those are very good suggestions and having been in IT for a while is pretty much what I do, purchase books, pay for my own training at times, etc, etc. Pretty much like 1,000s of other IT pros I am sure. Just frustrating that companies rely so heavily on technology and don't always think that it matters if they are properly staffed or if they overload their IT people. Personally I believe that is why many IT pros get burned out. They are just expected to do way more then people are capable of doing.
May 6, 2011 at 7:23 am
SqlNewJack (4/22/2011)
I'm currently a student finishing up my CS degree and making a major career change from a completely different field. What skill set would you recommend (languages, vendors, soft skills, type of experience) for landing my first sql developer/junior dba/sql programmer position? Any and all advice is appreciated.
Most of the time a DBA position is the final destination of a much wider IT career.
In my particular case the journey started as Assembly programmer; most of the great DBA I have the pleasure to work with have had software development experience.
My suggestion is to try to land an entry level position as SQL developer, then you will figure it out.
Hope this helps.
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.May 6, 2011 at 9:03 am
JoeS 3024 (5/5/2011)
So Steve what would you recommend then for those poor souls? As being one of them it drives me nuts to constantly be told I can't get more training as it's not my true job position yet I'm responsible for making the databases work. I'll be the first to admit I am not a DBA nor even a developer or have the skills those who are do, yet like it was mentioned smaller companies want a jack of all trades. I wish people would realize that now a days with the way technology is and how quickly it changes it's completely impossible to be a good 'jack of all trades' IT professional. Sure you can study like crazy and learn as much as you possibly can, just don't think of having a life then either.
I've been in this spot a few times, in and out of IT. I've been tossed into cooking or bartending jobs without training and not knowing everything I needed. I've had the same thing happen in IT. In a few cases the companies knew it was a bad situation and they eventually got me training, in others they didn't.
There's good advice from people above. Ultimately you are responsible for the job. Tough love, but you're being paid for that job, so you are responsible.
Here's what I'd do first. Get my resume up to date. Get it ready and set and be prepared to get whacked every week. Keep an eye on the job market and save some extra money. That's me, security first. I'd also make sure I had a reminder in Outlook or GCalendar to update this every month at first. Then every quarter once I was confident
Second, learn to restore stuff and then make sure you have backups in place. This is secondary because if you have a failure quick, you want to be ready to get a new job. But ultimately no matter what breaks or doesn't work, getting data back first is crucial.
Third, I'd learn and document as much as I could about the environment quickly. Get a handle on what works, what's being used, and what's broken. Knowing the scope is very helpful.
Fourth, ask questions about how to fix things. This forum, other people, wherever. Don't worry about looking ignorant, worry about learning.
As you go through all of this, you might be fighting fires. So while you practice restores or document, you might be trying to fix things and asking questions, but make time to get yourself into a good position.
I'd also talk to my boss regularly. Everytime I found a place I didn't know something, I'd make a note and let my boss know this is a hole. Maybe I can learn it, maybe I can't, but I could use help. That might be the best ROI for conferences. Go, make friends, get contacts that can fill your knowledge holes. Or find consultants you can call.
November 20, 2011 at 5:58 pm
I would also add going to user groups and doing some networking. You can also search meetup.com for groups related to the field you are interested in that are in your area. Try and network as much as you can and volunteer to get experience or whatever you can to set yourself apart.
November 21, 2011 at 3:21 pm
By all means, consider starting (or even an entire career) as a SQL Developer. SQL is easy to learn (it’s practically English) and in one form or another behind about every data application out there and isn’t going to go away any time soon. Regardless of the front-end, your ability to write SQL scripts will support you as you move from company to company or product to product. I know people who are geniuses with C# but haven’t yet had the time or opportunity to learn to write complex stored procedures.
Lastly, the people that can query the data are the ones with the power. Management tells you what they want to know; you are the person with the answers. Especially if you supplement your SQL with analytical skills.
November 22, 2011 at 10:39 am
I was in your position about a year and a half ago. There have been some great tips so far. One tip I would suggest is keep some examples of work you have done for school. I think a printout of something you worked on is a great thing to bring to an interview. For my job interview I had a printout of screenshots and code for my Senior Project(a simple website with a couple of SQL Server backend tables). I got the job as a Data Analyst(pretty much analogous to SQL Developer). The cool thing is the DBA is giving me opportunities to take on some DBA tasks, so I'm getting on the job training.
Another thing: don't get discouraged if you don't get a job after the first interview. The job I have now wasn't my first interview.
Lastly, if you're interested the company I work for has a few IT positions open. Not sure of the forum rules for posting this kind of thing, so if you're interested send me a PM and I'll send you the company website link.
November 22, 2011 at 10:44 am
Joseph Hampton (11/22/2011)
I was in your position about a year and a half ago. There have been some great tips so far. One tip I would suggest is keep some examples of work you have done for school. I think a printout of something you worked on is a great thing to bring to an interview. For my job interview I had a printout of screenshots and code for my Senior Project(a simple website with a couple of SQL Server backend tables). I got the job as a Data Analyst(pretty much analogous to SQL Developer). The cool thing is the DBA is giving me opportunities to take on some DBA tasks, so I'm getting on the job training.Another thing: don't get discouraged if you don't get a job after the first interview. The job I have now wasn't my first interview.
Lastly, if you're interested the company I work for has a few IT positions open. Not sure of the forum rules for posting this kind of thing, so if you're interested send me a PM and I'll send you the company website link.
There's a forum for open jobs and hunters.
Advertise all you want.
November 22, 2011 at 11:26 am
Joseph Hampton (11/22/2011)
I got the job as a Data Analyst(pretty much analogous to SQL Developer). The cool thing is the DBA is giving me opportunities to take on some DBA tasks, so I'm getting on the job training.
This poster's experience exemplifies the route many DBAs seem to have taken to that job. Get a job that allows you to interact with the DBAs on some level (developer, QA tester, sys admin, whatever), ask them intelligent questions about what they do and why every chance you get, and learn everything you can from them. Most DBAs I know seem thrilled when someone in another discipline is interested in their work and their technology and so will talk at length about it with anyone willing to listen and learn. Rather than attempting to dazzle the DBAs with your knowledge of RDBMSs in these interactions, show them that you realize how much you DON'T know and that you want to learn the right way of doing things. So many egregious database administration mistakes are made by people who are so sure they know what they are doing that they don't stop to consider the unexpected consquences of their actions, aren't willing to ask someone more knowledgeable or experienced to review their plans before they carry them out, and don't ask for help as soon as something goes wrong instead of making the problem worse by mucking around trying to fix it. DBAs are a conservative bunch (see the above posts about the role of the DBA as guardian and protector of data), so they seem to be naturally suspicious of such know-it-all types. As the DBAs get to know and respect you as someone who is humble enough to know your limitations, they will be more comfortable trusting you to work within those limitations and thus more willing to back you for a junior DBA position or some similar role when a job opening arises.
Jason Wolfkill
November 23, 2011 at 2:45 am
@SqlNewJack: Are you here? Are you reading all these suggestions?
Nope. He/she is not. Last Login Friday, May 06, 2011 9:35 PM.
November 23, 2011 at 6:25 am
Dev (11/23/2011)[hrNope. He/she is not. Last Login Friday, May 06, 2011 9:35 PM.
:w00t: don't you feel like preaching on the desert?
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.November 23, 2011 at 6:28 am
PaulB-TheOneAndOnly (11/23/2011)
Dev (11/23/2011)[hrNope. He/she is not. Last Login Friday, May 06, 2011 9:35 PM.
:w00t: don't you feel like preaching on the desert?
Not Exactly. The thread is still active (but OP is inactive).
November 23, 2011 at 6:32 am
Dev (11/23/2011)
PaulB-TheOneAndOnly (11/23/2011)
Dev (11/23/2011)[hrNope. He/she is not. Last Login Friday, May 06, 2011 9:35 PM.
:w00t: don't you feel like preaching on the desert?
Not Exactly. The thread is still active (but OP is inactive).
Sure it is. OP dropped the initial post then went fishing and wouldn't even bother in closing the thread 😀
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.November 23, 2011 at 6:37 am
Paul... it's a good point actually. There are many threads in SSC where OP didn't care to inform that problem solved & XYZ gave the solution (XYZ is still waiting for thanks :hehe:).
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