November 24, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Knowledge sharing
:-PManie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Holy Bible
I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times. - Everett Mckinley Dirkson (Well, I am trying. - Manie Verster)
November 25, 2008 at 12:05 am
I don't have a problem either helping rookies or being patient with them. I do have a problem with people that have a gazillion titles after their name and they "ask" things like "how to backup send answer with detailed steps immediately". Those kinds of "questions" don't sit well with me or a lot of other people who won't speak up about it, especially since the "answer" is in bloody Books Online and they never even looked! Questions like that are arrogant and stupid especially when they "brag" about how much they think they know by calling themselves Sr. DBA or have a bunch of titles after their name.
Everyone wants folks like me to be patient and, lordy, we try. But we also put up with a huge amount of abuse, arrogant demands, and a whole bunch of other hooie including some of the most poorly formed questions and data descriptions in the world. Even when we ask for clarification, it almost seems that some people are bothered by the fact we asked for clarification.
Your article is well founded, Manie... I wish people would take the time to be kind to us frequent posters and to remember we don't get paid to take as much crap as we do...
Some of my favorites are lists of interview questions and homework questions... and they're usually in some forum post with "urgent" in the title. People actually expect us to do their bloody homework for them. The world is full of people with titles that don't deserve them... I'm not gonna help someone else get that way. Why don't I just ignore the post? Because there's a lot of people out there that don't understand that people doing homework have to try and that I don't want folks just to give these future bad DBA's the answers. Same thing with the interview questions.
Heh... then there's the "intelligent" ones that say things like "performance" doesn't matter and will argue for hours about it. The only reason why I continue in such a debate is because I don't want any newbies to think that performance doesn't matter. With very, very few exceptions, it almost always matters because someone will pick up on bad code and use it.
I wish someone would write and article about how to post a question... oh, wait a minute! I DID! 😉 And it's in my signature line and in the signature line of many of the heavy hitters. Do you think people take the time to read it even when we do point it out? Some do but most don't...
So yes... if you have intelligent questions, even if you're not sure exactly what to ask and you use just a little non-arrogant courtesy in a post, people will jump through hoops to help you. Take on the wrong attitude and it's pork chop time, boys and girls. :hehe:
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 25, 2008 at 3:17 am
Erratum:
The following piece if code is incomplete and I have placed the correct code below this:
declare @datestring varchar(12)
set @datestring = convert(varchar(12),dateadd(d,-3,getdate()),1)EXECUTE master.dbo.xp_delete_file
The correct code:
declare @datestring varchar(12)
set @datestring = convert(varchar(12),dateadd(d,-3,getdate()),1)
EXECUTE master.dbo.xp_delete_file 0, N'D:\Orisys\Backup\',N'bak', @datestring
Now Jeff, I'd like to thank you for your post. You know what? I knew you were going to be the first to comment because I remember from a while back something that you said about this same subject. You are right in a way because I also don't like arrogant people but I was not talking about them. I was talking about rookies/newbies that are really struggling to do it and in the workplace you don't get a lot of people that wants to help and they find pleasure in seeing someone suffering and eventually even get fired because they don't come right.
If you just know how I struggled in the beginning and how these forums helped me. I am willing to share my little bit of knowledge with anyone.
Hey remember! Jesus loves you.
:-PManie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Holy Bible
I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times. - Everett Mckinley Dirkson (Well, I am trying. - Manie Verster)
November 25, 2008 at 3:34 am
Good article Manie.
This forum was my first experience of online forums and I am grateful for the help I get.
Because of the positive experience here I've joined forums for my other interests too and it really broadens my outlook to hear other peoples views.
November 25, 2008 at 4:27 am
Good article Manie,
SSC is gr8 forum with some good ppl who are really trying to help everyone.
As I like MS products (I'm MCITP Dev and DBA and soon be a MCSE) I also like to work in oracle and linux and I remembered how I was burned on one linux forum, I asked something about intrusion detection, penetration testing and exploits (preparing myself for CEH exam) and as an answer I got only RTFMs :blush: I've never got back to that forum ever again.
Politeness of members is essential for a gr8 forum and community.
-------------------------------------------------------------
"It takes 15 minutes to learn the game and a lifetime to master"
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality."
November 25, 2008 at 6:00 am
I Thank you Manie for posting something like this. It did experience exactly the same thing as I was learning SQL. As there are demanding request from other more senior folks, there are also arrogant office mates that would not help. Until someone new came along that knew a lot of things that we helped each other out did I start to learn.
I however want to point out that if a new person comes into this line of work, for them to take
the initiative to read, research and practice. Most DBA's starting out almost use the Sr. ones as
a crutch and never want to give it some effort before asking the questions.
When my Jr. DBA's ask me a question, I tell them to look it up first and then we can discuss if they still have any questions. I provide them with a DBA Test environment of which they can practice and learn before they mess with production servers and databases.
November 25, 2008 at 6:15 am
I spent three days building a simple two node cluster using a lab server with VMWare Server installed.
Not as easy as it sounds given that I'm not a server administrator by trade (Systems Integrator)
I Had to figure out how to create a cluster, had to figure out how to get VMWare Server to allow me to share a drive, and had to figure out how to share resources. I could have just called an Exchange administrator, those guys do this all the time with the Exchange servers, though they don't do it with virtual servers, but I chose to use my favorite method of learning, Google.
In the end, I had a two node virtual cluster with a file share and website that had full failover capabilities.
The lesson I learned was then documented and posted to my company blog. If anyone asks, I'll just send them a link to the article.
The one that will really bother me is the one guy at work (there is one guy who...) who will call me two hours after I leave the office to discuss his shortcomings as a VB scripter. (Hey, I'm trying to...)
Since I'm on call for a product I manage, I'll answer the phone and politely and patiently explain it to him AGAIN. I won't charge the company for the time because I'm salaried and I'll secretly wish this guy would just fall victim to the next round of labor reductions.
I digress though, good article.
Regards,
Ron Hagerman
November 25, 2008 at 6:41 am
Manie makes some very good points. I wish SQLServerCentral had been around in 1994 when I started working with SQL Server.
And Jeff makes a good point too. Not enough of you guys get credit for posting knowledge and wisdom on your own initiative without the thought of recompense. I know I come here because of the wealth of information represented by the membership. I can always find something interesting to read, frequently an answer to a question (whether or not I knew I had the question) and I can occasionally put my 2 cents in for some value.
But I think we all owe thanks to folks like Jeff and Steve and all the other experienced people who post information for the rest of us to make use of. Thanks, guys. You don't hear it often enough, but I believe you help more than you know. Just look at the number of members. That says something by itself.
------------
Buy the ticket, take the ride. -- Hunter S. Thompson
November 25, 2008 at 6:52 am
Manie Verster (11/25/2008)
I was talking about rookies/newbies that are really struggling to do it and in the workplace you don't get a lot of people that wants to help and they find pleasure in seeing someone suffering and eventually even get fired because they don't come right.
Understood... even said that folks like me cater to newbies... so long as they don't have a chip on their shoulder. I don't believe you'll find any of the heavy hitters on this forum want to see someone fail just because they're new and they certainly don't find pleasure in seeing someone suffer or get fired. Part of the reason why I take my personal time to post is because I didn't have anyone to ask when I started and the internet was nothing but a hard coded dirt road.
In the office, I'm happy to help someone who wants to learn. I've taught 5 or 6 lunch'n'learns in the few months I've been at the new job and I have absolutely no problem showing someone how to do something. But if you come up to me and ask me for help with an arrogant attitude, you probably aren't going to get my help even if it's on how to just make coffee.
We all have to work together and business is tough enough without putting up with arrogance or bad attitude from anyone and that covers even more than just getting some help.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 25, 2008 at 7:00 am
When it comes to the Maintenance tasks for deleting old files, I found another annoying fact about them. I am not sure if anyone else has run into this, the process (or rather extended stored procedure) that deletes the files is case sensitive :ermm:. I didn't check the collation on the Server at that time; I plan to do that when I get to work today LOL.
But on that server I had backups building up non stop, until I found out that the I had different case in the extension. i.e. "bak" vs. "BAK".
This form, Microsoft News Groups, Many many Bloggs (Blog hunter :p). When I start studying SQL Server; I was very disappointed at what I was doing and what was expected of me as SQL Server DBA. So I started studying on my on times, books, news groups, etc. Read peoples question try to come with an answer; if I was able to I did post the reply. But many times I have found other people reply and learn great deal from it.
As one of my teachers once told me in Kendo, take all the comments you get, you never know when one of them might be useful to you :).
Great article :).
Edit: I been watching and reading articles on this site for a while now; but recently decided to start posting and start asking questions. As with many I have had some not so good experiences with the forms. When I wrote my first article on SSC regarding Normalization; and got peoples response it was really a good feeling. Many people came with great reply and suggestion (which I am working on 2nd part of that article on). But recently I wrote on SCHEMABINDDING for my on blog (http://sqllearnings.blogspot.com/2008/11/schema-binding-views.html) for a friend who didn't know what it meant and again I am always surprised at the time people are willing to put in me. I like to thank all the people who have helped me here and everywhere else, on an endless journey to become a good DBA :D.
Mohit K. Gupta, MCITP: Database Administrator (2005), My Blog, Twitter: @SQLCAN[/url].
Microsoft FTE - SQL Server PFE
* Some time its the search that counts, not the finding...
* I didn't think so, but if I was wrong, I was wrong. I'd rather do something, and make a mistake than be frightened and be doing nothing. :smooooth:[/font]
November 25, 2008 at 7:26 am
Jeff Moden (11/25/2008)
...Heh... then there's the "intelligent" ones that say things like "performance" doesn't matter and will argue for hours about it. The only reason why I continue in such a debate is because I don't want any newbies to think that performance doesn't matter.
...
In an effort to both edify a strong forum poster (Jeff) and to give kudos to a great forum (SSC), I'd like to quote Jeff and point everyone's attention to a post he just made (< 24hours ago...I think). It's toward the bottom, me quoting Jeff, quoting me, quoting Jeff (Post #608311). Both his professionalism and his conviction won me over to his side of the argument(http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic607292-1424-6.aspx).
In short, I agree with Manie that these forums, especially for fledgling DBA's like myself (title withheld for fear of seeing a dark side of Jeff that I haven't encountered yet. ;)), are indispensable.
November 25, 2008 at 7:40 am
This is an awesome site with many great people willing to share thier knowledge. I know I have picked up many new ideas here, and learned some tricks to get things done faster and more effeciently.
Kudos to Steve for a great site, and to the "heavy hitters" (Jeff, Gail, Grant, Jack, and many others) that have taught me a lot in a short period of time. Keep it up, because you have inspired me as well, which is why I have tried to help as many as I can as well.
Manie, good article, and welcome to the team!
November 25, 2008 at 7:48 am
Lynn Pettis (11/25/2008)
This is an awesome site with many great people willing to share thier knowledge. I know I have picked up many new ideas here, and learned some tricks to get things done faster and more effeciently.Kudos to Steve for a great site, and to the "heavy hitters" (Jeff, Gail, Grant, Jack, and many others) that have taught me a lot in a short period of time. Keep it up, because you have inspired me as well, which is why I have tried to help as many as I can as well.
Manie, good article, and welcome to the team!
I share Lynn's sentiments exactly. I have learned so much from the forum discussions. I am now addicted to the newsletter and the forums. The newsletter is the first thing I read in the morning. It really starts the day off right - gets my brain warmed up and ready for work.
November 25, 2008 at 8:54 am
Manie,
Great article and thanks to everyone else for the great complements. We try to help where we can.
November 25, 2008 at 9:04 am
Manie
Excellent one. Wish you write lot of articles here ...:)
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