August 17, 2009 at 5:20 am
Exception to the rule speaking here.
The worth of a certification truly depends on how one goes about obtaining it. You can't just blanketly say that everyone who gets one is worthless and just using it to get a job they don't understand. I spent two years self-studying for my SQL certs before I got them and got into IT.
Getting my cert was necessary for me to break into the industry. Previous to this, all my paid job experience had been in customer service. I couldn't get anyone to even glance at my resume for an IT job even though I had unpaid programming / IT experience out the ying-yang.
Of course, I didn't do training courses, boot camps or anything like that. I built myself a couple of cheap boxes and went through all the certification exercises like 5 times in order to teach myself this stuff. I broke my SOHO on several occasions trying to do things differently. Even broke it when doing the exercises as written because some of the texts had the exercises written wrong. In addition to this, I taught myself networking basics and server OS basics to enhance my understanding of how SQL Server worked.
By the time I was through, I had a pretty decent understanding of a basic production DBA. How to keep jobs running, how to maintain databases, etc. Of course, then it was a matter of getting a help desk IT job and moving up the ranks. But studying for the cert is what helped me break in.
So, I don't feel it's a worthless piece of paper. But I agree with you that seeing someone ask for the Q&A is somewhat sad. Those people seem to be missing the point. Boot camps are highly over-rated too. Memorizing the info doesn't assist a person when it comes to actually doing the work. Now, if they actually worked at it like I did, that would be a bit different.
August 17, 2009 at 5:50 am
I see that you display your certs after your name. You could be right, an exception to the rule. However IMHO the majority seem to get the certs way too easy and people see the certs as a guarantee to a well paid job.
What some people forget, is that a lot of people get the certs and undercut exisiting IT professionals, purely to get SQL DBA on their CV , regardless if they can do the job or not. I have seen this first hand.
It would be nice to think that people undergo the self sacrifice that you have done in your journey, but that is not the case.
In the UK, recently, in the current economic climate. Agencies are getting flooded with 200+ cv's for a single DBA role within a hour. Trust me on this, I also applied for those roles. and the agency has come back and said that 97-99% of those applicants cannot do the job.
Maybe it is different in the US, But in the UK, it is a problem for experienced DBA's to find work. having to compete against people who have got the certs, who are willing to work for peanuts or free and basically lie about their experience.
~Silverfox~
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August 17, 2009 at 6:01 am
Silverfox (8/17/2009)
Maybe it is different in the US, But in the UK, it is a problem for experienced DBA's to find work. having to compete against people who have got the certs, who are willing to work for peanuts or free and basically lie about their experience.
Actually, it sounds like the UK is experiencing what the US did about 8-10 years ago. PaperCerts (as some called them) flooded the market, got the jobs, and failed spectacularly at it. But because there were so many IT jobs available, no one was getting weeded out. Then the tech bubble burst and a lot of jobs were lost. Good people as well as bad people ended up on the street.
These days it seems that US firms are doing a lot better job in the interview process to weed out those who truly can't do the job from those who can. And a lot of the positions open right now are for senior DBAs (4-5 years on the job). Of course, the market in my neck of the woods might be a little different from the rest of the US.
August 17, 2009 at 7:15 am
So just out of curiosity, How much does a senior SQL DBA normally get in the US. and more importantly, Do you get any more money for being certified or is it just a status symbol, if you have the certificate on your wall. 😛
just out of curiosity a fellow dba sitting opposite me, has asked me if americans have the certificates laminated and put in pride of place on their desk for all to see. 😛
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August 17, 2009 at 7:31 am
Mr Fox sir,
I see you are a man who likes to pull someones chain.
Ells.:cool:
August 17, 2009 at 7:41 am
I haven't seen anyone laminate their cert. Usually, people keep the original at home and put a nice color photocopy in a frame at their desk. I personally have too many diagrams & stuff on my walls, so I don't display my certs.
Extra pay for certs depends on the workplace. Some companies require certs as conditions of employement. Others make it part of your yearly review process. And still others make it optional, giving a bump in your pay raise if you get one. And then there are the places that don't require it at all and don't factor it into your pay cheque.
So to answer your question about money verses status, it depends. Like everything else DBA related. @=)
Salary also depends on location and other required DBA duties. Some metro areas have lower cost of living expenses, so don't pay as much as say New York City (where cost of living is astronomical) would pay. Where I'm at, a Senior DBA pays between $76-$106k U.S. dollars. Which doesn't mean that every single employer WILL pay that much. It's just an average.
August 17, 2009 at 7:56 am
Ells (8/17/2009)
Mr Fox sir,I see you are a man who likes to pull someones chain.
Ells.:cool:
Who Sir, me Sir, you slander me Sir!!
It was a perfectly formed question, to which I got an exact answer. which leads on to the next question. Are American DBA's over paid or Do they truely deserve the high salary that they get? 😛
On a serious note, I appreciate the prompt and honest reply. which answers the question and satisfies my curiosity. On the whole of it, it seems that having the certification works for you, if you live in the states. other countries I am not so sure about .
Your most ever humble servant.
~Silverfox~
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August 17, 2009 at 8:08 am
To be honest, I think I'm underpaid. I work hard, get things done. I don't have any MS Certififications, though I'd like to get the SQL Server certs, between work and life, just not enough hours in the day.
August 17, 2009 at 8:09 am
I'm not going to share personal salary info, but I will give you a fair idea of what my job entails.
Basic Production Admin duties including job creation / maint., db maint. (indexes, files / filegroups / size, SAN issues, connectability...the list goes on), production data updates, security, performance monitoring (and fixing as needed), deploying program releases to all environments, schema maint. and liason to the developers for schema alterations.
Debugging Developers SQL code (when it fails) and assisting Developers with proper coding & procedures. Mentoring new employees in the use of SQL Server. Training employees on databases, T-SQL and office "Best Practices".
Report creation, report subscriptions, fixing report code, producing one-off reports and re-use reports.
Developing SSIS packages and new jobs.
Creating new databases as needed, developing a data warehouse solution with an ETL to merge multiple data sources (hetrogenius?? Can't remember the name).
Develop Business Objects Universes for reporting purposes.
Server upgrades, database moves, platform change overs, third party software evaluation and recommendation.
New one: SSAS cube creation & ETL for reporting.
...All other duties as assigned...
In essence, I do Development DBA, Production DBA, Data Analyst, Data Architect, Report Writer, BI Developer, and Trainer. And I don't get paid Senior DBA rates because I'm not yet a Senior DBA. @=)
August 17, 2009 at 8:13 am
As nobody has mentioned this so far I believe that if the company is a MS partner then depending on the number of certificates and certificated people they may be a silver \ or gold partner. Some consultancies may be interested if working for them would upgrade their partner status.
No framed certs for me. Never displat them in any way. Might put them on the next set of business cards. Why?? because there is so much anti certificate feeling from the technical community.
Ells.
😎
August 17, 2009 at 8:14 am
Lynn Pettis (8/17/2009)
To be honest, I think I'm underpaid. I work hard, get things done.
DittoDitto. Amen to all of that. And the list of "stuff what needs done" just keeps growing, it seems.
August 17, 2009 at 8:28 am
Ells (8/17/2009)
As nobody has mentioned this so far I believe that if the company is a MS partner then depending on the number of certificates and certificated people they may be a silver \ or gold partner. Some consultancies may be interested if working for them would upgrade their partner status.No framed certs for me. Never displat them in any way. Might put them on the next set of business cards. Why?? because there is so much anti certificate feeling from the technical community.
Ells.
😎
You are right, One of the clients that I worked at, the other contract DBA was ex-microsoft, who had gold partner status. if you have enough credits/points which consists of certified individuals belonging to the company, you get more free goodies from microsoft and endless supply of free licensed software. it is a gimmick in some ways, but if you run your own company and are aiming to get partner status with microsoft the freebies can make it worth while. last thing he got before i left was the trainer materials for MCT for SQL server, so he could do SQL Training. It is probably the only reason that would validate going for the certifications.
~Silverfox~
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August 17, 2009 at 8:32 am
Brandie Tarvin (8/17/2009)
I haven't seen anyone laminate their cert. Usually, people keep the original at home and put a nice color photocopy in a frame at their desk. I personally have too many diagrams & stuff on my walls, so I don't display my certs.
The only 'certificate' that I ever displayed on my desk was my MVP one, and that was for about 3 weeks. My certification certificates are in a file, along with record of courses attended, letters of recommendation, etc.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
August 17, 2009 at 8:38 am
Gail, that is so awesome that you got to be MVP. If I had one, I'd be displaying that too. @=)
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