July 5, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Cliffs
1. Probably have a review coming up this week
2. Was told for the past 2 years I would get a promotion
3. Probably getting it this week
4. Feel like I am gonna be let down with the extra work and low end salary
5. Inquiring about getting a paid salary report which does a market analysis of your job in your area to possibly combat a low salary if it does happen.
6. Seeing if anyone else has any personal history with dealing with a scenario like I have and what they did and did it work?
I am 5 years into the company and have been told the last 2 years that I will be getting a promotion to a lead type position.
I work for a large manufacturing company and over the course of my time have excelled at just about every task assigned to me one way or another...
I am not trying to come off arrogant with the last statement, just trying to say that I have done above what has been asked of me...
Two years ago, it was 'hinted' that I was in line...then the downturn of the economy...etc...and a hiring freeze...then last review (a year ago) I was told within 12 months I would be getting the promotion...well here we are a year later and out of the blue I got an invite with my manager and director...to review goals...slightly odd...
The same time I get an invite for a team lunch...very odd as we never go out as a group unless someone is getting hired or fired or interviewed...so something is up...
Anyways the last couple of reviews I have gone in with a stat sheet of all my projects...things that have improved processes...etc...and been armed with much ammo to support my case...
The only problem is no matter what...they never seem to reward for good work...only the norm.
Person A who doesn't do that great of work gets the same as Person B who excels...
I am wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation and gone in with something other than a print out from a free site...and tried to state their case.
Even if they aren't willing to budge on a pay increase...maybe more vacation...
The let down for me is even if I get this promotion...I fully expect to be on the lowest end of the pay scale from what you would expect...
For a little history of how I got where I am today...
When I first started I was very happy to get the job I have now...didn't have a ton of experience in the particular job (DBA) per say but I learn quick and that is just what I did...
Within 2-3 years I had obtained the most knowledge out of my group across the board...from a technical standpoint...and within the last 2 years I have been the primary person for large projects as well as one of the main resources for information.
That being said my initial salary was bottom of the barrel when I started...I didn't care because it was a great opportunity and I thought that if I did extra...it would show up...and I would get brought up to industry average...
In year 3 I finally snapped after crummy raise after crummy raise and said the work outweighs the pay...and I got a 15% raise...which still didn't bring me into the ballpark but I wasn't going to complain.
SO...now I sit...and fully expect to get the same kind of low end raise...and am getting depressed...
My job duties have expanded 10 fold during the 5 years but the compensation hasn't stayed the same course...
Just curious if it is worth the 50 bucks or not...so I at least have something for reference.
Thanks in advance,
Lee
July 6, 2011 at 8:36 am
I would not pay for a report.
Get the most recent Robert Half salary survey. Then look up the market cost of living adjustment for your city.
If the number is higher than your current salary, bring that info with you.
If the number is lower than your current salary, don't bring it.
If you now have 5+ years of experience, you should just put your resume out on the internet and see what sort of offers you get.
You will be surprised.
I believe 5 years of SQL Server experience will get most SQL Server DBAs to the $80,000 range, even in a low cost area of the USA.
If you are in a high cost area of the USA then $95,000+ is easy to obtain.
July 6, 2011 at 9:23 am
One word of caution: be prepared with what you think in your head is appropriate and fair. The thing about bringing in salary reports like was suggested is that you're sending a fairly clear message. In other words - I wouldn't "bluff" with that, if you don't intend to follow through if they don't meet what you think is fair. Make sure whatever you have is a. accurate, b. represents what you actually do, and c. be prepared to justify why you think you meet whatever part of the range you think you fall in. Time in position is a bad reason.
Your company is unique, so knowing how the downturn has affected it will be something you nedd to gauge. Yes - that might be a factor, but ultimately it will only be part of the decision: even if the company is giving you everything they think they can, you may still have needs they can't meet, so that's another aspect.
In short - have an actual idea, backed up by facts and/or the report, weight it against what you actually need and what has been previously promised, and - be prepared to act on whatever is presented to you. Employers don't tend to react well when they feel like they're being presented with an ultimatum.
That said - knowing where you fall in the industry averages is never a bad thing to know. You may find out you're outside of the range which may help dictate your decision one way or the other.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
July 6, 2011 at 9:54 am
Thanks for the link James...I got to that website and downloaded the report...
As for what I think is fair? I have tried to gauge what I think others that have more experience (years in the field) and less work than I do and I see what they have for benefits (more vacation...assumed higher pay...etc)...
Also I have gone to the various free report sites to get the 'range' on the bell curve for a DBA, with the appropriate filters applied and I am not even at the 25% mark...for the base DBA listing...
When you compare it to the other levels I, II, III, IV, V it is way off...
Even if I were to get a 10% raise which I am not going to get...I would...based on that bell curve on salary.com be a fair amount below the 25% mark...
All I guess I am looking for initially is a decent way to identify a value for the median salary based on my skills and years of service.
If I can get that I have a starting point.
How do you generally recommend go about disputing or addressing discrepancies where you have an amount lower than what you would like?
Do you do it at the time of the actual review or do you just accept that amount and schedule a second appointment?
If you do it during the review...how do you go about not sounding negative...or disappointed?
Thanks again,
Lee
July 6, 2011 at 10:28 am
Lee,
I have been through this many times. Here is what I have done for years.
1) Always keep your resume updated on Dice.com. Every few months go add a new line to your existing employment.
For example, I just added Netapp SAN (Snapmanaer 5.0 for SQL Server and Snapdrive).
Updating your resume with new info refreshes it in the system and keeps recruiters contacting you.
I get 3-5 contacts per week asking me to submit my resume (local and long distance opportunities).
2) I always respond asking for the fulltime salary of the position or the contract rate for contract-to-hire.
That is all I ask for because it is the one relevant piece of info that they rarely ever include.
3) If they respond with a fulltime salary that is more than I currently make, I save those emails in a folder.
4) I don't actually go on any interview lately because I really like my current job and how close it is to my house.
Also my current job is paying me in my comfort zone.
I don't get many inquiries offering me much more. I only have 3 emails in the folder (with higher salary) since my last review.
Those 3 emails all would involve a much longer drive, so that is a negative.
5) When you have your review, print out those emails to take with you.
You need to have the right attitude during this process. Don't be arrogant and don't make ultimatums.
a) Say that you really like your job for whatever reasons that are true.
b) Point out that your experience and skill is currently at the Senior SQL Server DBA level.
c) While you may have started at a lower level with this company, you have now reached a level where other companies are offering you significantly more money.
d) Point out that most IT people have to change jobs to get their salary adjusted higher, but you really don't want to do that. You like your current job.
e) Ask for a salary adjustment to what the market is currently offering Senior SQL Server DBAs.
With the emails to support your salary number, I suspect you will get a raise.
Now here is what your manager is thinking:
1) If I have to replace this guy, I am going to have to hire someone that will be looking for that higher number anyway.
2) Can I have a more junior DBA accomplish the same tasks for less money?
3) Do I have the money in my budget? How do I explain this to the VP?
A lot of that is out of your control. If the company is doing poorly, then your manager might not have any flexibility, even if he agrees with you.
Your manager will know that you have options, so if he can get your a fair salary adjustment, he will likely do so.
But you need to present it in such as way that it is not a threat.
This has worked for me over the years and has kept me in the upper salary ranges.
And I don't consider myself a superstar. I have my certifications (MCTS and MCITP) but there are many guys that know a lot more than me out there.
July 6, 2011 at 10:46 am
I wouldn't pay for a report, and there are numerous ones out there, as Leeland noted. I also always participate in salary surveys, mostly just to get a copy of the results and see where I rank.
I also like Matt's advice. If you take a hard line, or really want to push this, be prepared to leave.
I do think that if you feel you're underpaid, then I'd make sure that's the case. I'd research and try to determine if you are really making less. I've seen many people that thought they were underpaid, but in looking at other companies in their area, along with their skill and responsibility, they weren't. Remember, you're paid first for the job, not necessarily for your experience. McDonalds isn't going to pay me $90k a year to flip hamburgers, regardless of my experience.
If the company is making promises, and not following through, that's different. I might try to see if this is a manager that is lying to you, or maybe thinking he/she can get the raise approved and cannot. If you think it's the former, I might talk to HR, not as a complaint, but as a "how do I deal with this?" There are many companies that have bad managers, and don't want them anymore than bad employees. Upper management might not be aware of this.
I do try to make a case, with proof, of why I'm worth more. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. If not, I have said that I will consider other opportunities. Not as a threat, and I make it clear I won't just leave them or do less work, but if I find something else, I will likely leave. If they don't care, that's fine. They're not in charge of my career and if they don't want to make me happy at work, I can move on. I would really think, however, about whether you want to leave. The grass is not always greener, but it can be a better situation. Note that most times money isn't the thing that makes you unhappy, or happy.
I don't know if your company can do anything about benefits. Often that's an issue with HR that they can't change. Some managers might allow you more time off for different things, but that's hard to measure or enforce. I might ask for more training $$, maybe a conference instead of a raise, or education funding and pursue a degree if you like.
July 6, 2011 at 10:59 am
James...thanks for the great advice...it is certainly something to start doing...
I appreciate the feedback and I will try to update the thread once I find out my faith 🙂
July 6, 2011 at 11:13 am
Also, don't be shy about letting your boss or co-workers know that you are in demand. It will keep you in demand at work if you handle it properly.
My cell phone rings often with recruiters contacting me. I don't go out of my way to do this, but I will take the phone call right where others can overhear me.
I have even done it while at lunch with my boss.
Here is what my boss heard from one side of the conversation:
"What does the position pay?"
"Where are they located?"
"No thanks, my current job is really close to my house and I like the work I am doing."
Then we joked about it while we had lunch.
I always know when a new job opens around here. The same day I get 3 phone calls or emails with the exact same job description.
But it also lets your boss and co-workers know that you are a hot commodity and in demand.
That never hurts.
You might be a superstar DBA or you might just be average. The odds are that your manager and co-workers don't have the skill to tell the difference.
If they know that you get lots of recruiters contacting you, but you turn them down, your co-workers and managers will know one thing. You have options.
July 6, 2011 at 11:21 am
Sounds like you have a pretty good relationship with your boss...I don't know if I would have the guts to try something like that.
And I am in the same boat as you...I really enjoy my job, it is close to home...I just would like to have the salary that is in line with industry standard for my area...
Of the friends that have moved on to other DBA jobs...all have gotten raises in doing so...so I am loosely aware of what others are making in the same field at a smaller companies.
Thanks for the good advice.
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