Is it a lie?
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Jeff
If you work in a TEAM that everyone works together and helps each other and your manager supports you, you are very lucky.
However for the past six years, I start to learn something new, not new technology but how to survive among my co-workers and how to due with company politics. Company politics always exists. However it seemed to me after year 2000, people started to change. For the past six years and 4 companies, I have to learn how to protect myself and my job, so is other people. Everyone complains but no one is willing to say anything because they are afraid they will lose their job.
I learned this from my former manager 'TO KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT', he told me that is the way to survive.
In one company, there were to project managers in my department, I saw my own manager grinning when the IT VP yelled at the other manager. No one is willing to share their knowledge or help each other, this is job security. When I complained something to a co-worker, someone heard it and I immediately got a phone call from my manager.
You have a great boss. I have to due with all kind of strange people at work!!!
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I sure do feel for folks that get stuck in that type of situation. Definitely not a pleasant position. Was going to suggest you find a new company but you've already tried that... Guess you're right... I'm pretty damned lucky if that's what's it's like everywhere else. I did work at creating some of that "luck", though...
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Define "survive".
I think your former boss did you a dis-service by saying "keep your mouth shut". There are many ways to discuss the issues that affect a team; I'd suggest you take a communications course at a local community college if you're interested in improving those skills.And a TEAM isn't something you're handed - it's something you're involved in building. But I'm the first to acknowledge that not all company cultures support true team-building, and it is extremely difficult to do if the culture is prohibitive. I've been in such a situation before, and leaving it is the right course of action, but don't leave for just ANY other job. Research the companies you'd like to work for, and as part of YOUR half of the interview, ask about the corporate culture - develop questions to draw out information regarding how some of the situations you've experienced in the past would be handled at a prospective employer. Find a company whose culture matches your values, and I think you'll be much happier.
Here there be dragons...,Steph Brown
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I'd take a close look at your recruitment process. Around here developers and dba's get technical tests so we know they can walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
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In my recent experience, resumes, certifications, and college degrees mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING today.
I make a note of them when interviewing someone, but really I couldn't care less. What impresses me in a candidate is how they can demonstrate their skills. If they are newbies, have they built databases, programs, etc., just for fun, for their own personal use, to make their own lives easier? If they are experienced, what applications did they build as a main or even supporting developer? And if I give them a very easy task, can they sit down at a computer and deliver that task within 30-60 minutes? (I don't even care if they complete it, but the results and code will tell me ALL that I need to know.)
The problem is, most managers do not know how to hire technical people. They are easily impressed and excited by certifications and degrees. And they are easily fooled by padded resumes and fast talkers. So those managers end up hiring the absolutely worst people for the job. Paper geniuses who actually can't code.
(And this is my biggest gripe about outsourcing from India, etc.... most of the oursource talent is exactly that kind of developer, loaded with skills knowledge from books, but having little real world experience or knowing what it takes to integrate their code to match other developers or develop code that is easily maintained by someone other than them. I earned 6 years of well-paid salary coming in behind people like this all the time and needing to spend months fixing their utterly abysmal code. Which isn't to say all outsourced Indian coders are bad, some are quite phenomenal, but you generally get what you pay for; the phenoms are getting high salaries just like domestic programmers!)
We once hired someone whose 5+ years of SQL skills were actually Microsoft Access skills, but they understood how to edit their Access queries in the SQL panel. But they coded in VB really well and fast, and it was easy to read and well commented. They turned out to one of those phenomenal coders, well worth taking a chance on. During that same interview process, we saw a guy who had 3 MS certifications and an MS in Comp Sci. Sat him down to write us a program to take 3 input fields, do some minor calcs in SQL SP's, then return and pop up some results. We even left him some SAMS Unleashed books as reference, in case he forgot the ADO connection techniques (hey, we all get used to using code templates we already built). But, after 2 hours, with nothing to show, he just up and left... embarrassed and exposed as a poser. (The Access programmer had passed that test in 30 mins, BTW, and afterwards said he thought we must have been joking, it was too easy.)
[font="Verdana"]If technology is supposed to give us more freedom and empower us to pursue the more important things in life, why do so many people allow themselves to become enslaved by it? Always remember, the truly important people cannot be reached... except when they want to reach you.[/font]
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Up to this point Loner, I have felt for you. Unless you are consulting, going through 4 companies in 6 years! I think there might be something wrong in the mirror.
I don't know you, and this isn't critical in any way of your technical knowledge, but from experience, chances are, if the problem seems to follow you, perhaps you are the problem.
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Bob
Do you think it is fun to keep looking for job? I like to settle down down too but sometimes thing just does not work out the way I want. I worked for a company I really liked from 1995 to 2000, I thought I would stay there until the new VP got rid of my department. There were twelve of us in the group and the company just put us in some department and gave us odd jobs. Eventually everyone of us left. It was a software company, after the bubble, no one buying any software, eventually they had to layoff a lot of people. Now some company bought that software company.
Then I went to work for a marketing company, that was where I learned SQL Server. I was an Oracle programmer, I thought SQL was SQL. Unfortunately it was not that simple, also the manager and the DBA made a big deal every time I made a mistake. When I worked as Oracle programmer, I was not allowed to create table, so I asked the SQL Server DBA to create the table for me. He yelled me and told me to do it myself. I asked him a question, he told me to look at BOL. It was the first week I was there, I did not even know what was BOL. They tried to intimate me, picked on me for every little thing I did, the more they yelled at me (Yes - actually YELLED at me), the more mistake I made. I stuck with it and worked there for two years. It was two years of mentally abused. When I told my husband, he said the same thing - 'Don't you think it is you have a problem'. I never talked about work with him ever since. I never talked about work with anyone else either. I lost all my confidence. Eventually I had to leave because I was at the edge of nervous breakdown.
I had to rest for a few months before I could return to workforce. I swear this time I could not allow anyone to step on me. Unfortunately it got a little backfire. Maybe I was going too far. Anyway I learned one thing, I had to be very careful talking at work. I used to joke a lot with my co-workers. Now a joke might become a warning from my boss.
I had a boss who gave me an exception review. He liked to discuss problems with me and accepted my suggestion with no problems. However we had an organization change this year and I had a new boss who was totally different. He said he welcomed suggestion but he refused to use it. He wanted me to use his method. I posted his method in this web site because it caused a dead lock. I did not know if he found out or what, he told me not to trust anything people said on the website because he said most people did not know what they were doing. From my opinion, he was the one who did not know what he was doing. I started to have a little argument with him. Then he started picking on me and tried to intimate me, he wanted to remind me who was the boss!!!
Nowadays I am learning how to adjust to be assertive but not going too far and how to due with all kind of company politics and people's work attitude.
I feel it is much harder to work with people these days because everyone is afraid of losing their job. Of all the 4 companies I worked for, most people seemed to have this kind of attitude. Also instead of working as a team, people like to brag about their skills even they don't have in order to impress the boss.
I worked very hard in every job, in most case I worked 10 hours each day. In most cases I changed job was because of people. I lost confidence in people. I did not know who was my enemy and who was my friend. It was very lonely that is why I called myself loner.
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Sorry - This may be a bit off-topic but I just had to vent on this one. Makes me angry every time I think about it.
(Doh! Guess I messed up and overwrote my original post about the guy who was a lazy fraud. AKA 'Slackeris Maximus' or 'Skillis Minimus'.)
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Loner - You sound like an honest, hard-working person. Based on this post and others I've read, you also seem to live in the past, you base your reality on how others have treated you. The past is never going to change, but your future can be anything you want it to be. Stop dwelling on what's gone so wrong and focus on your great skillset and the value you can provide to your team/company.
Find an audio program called "Lead The Field" by Earl Nightingale, it was created in the 50's I believe. Earl shares some fantastic ideas that will open your eyes and help you to the next step.
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Sounds to me like you work for the Government. As a current GE I can feel your pain. But the fact is the environment and culture in which we work is our choice. If you don't like the environment your in change it or learn to live with it.
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Loner,
You should realize that you cannot control all inequities...gotta figure out which battles to fight. I think you should simply wake up every day with the intention of being the best dba/developer/whatever and giving your employer 100%. The 'liar' co-worker is a nominal variable and you will see him as such eventually. In other words, he doesn't matter....
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While making an assumption here, it never occurred to me that Loner is a female ("...told my husband...")
This answers some questions while causing some other thoughts to require a re-think.
I'm inclined to agree with another poster that it sounds very much like you are in government - you are also in the same place that I was for quite a number of years (which is why I was surprised by the way you write - I was sure that you were a bloke ("were" as in "is" rather than the recipient of a sex-change or something flippant like that
)I worked with a woman for a few years who had been a DB2 DBA for a long time and she was treated like a total fool by many people in the organisation that I worked for. It disgusted me that her knowledge was being ignored - whether it be due to her being a female or something else, I don't know (although I have no idea what the 'something else' could have been....)
Needless to say, I had a lot of time for her as she saved my bacon more than once.
I had people yell at me and talk down to me when I was in government and I can tell you that the political players forget that, as a problem-solver, I don't need to resolve every conflict with words and that I was *so* close to throwing some of them down the fire-stairs. I'm not a violent person but they really did deserve treatment like this because they thought it was fair to belittle and degrade others and ruin careers while they stroked their egos.
I can't say if Loner is the problem here or not as I don't know the person. I'm inclined to suggest that there may be a slight attitude change required if Loner is anything like I used to be (again, not able to compare).
What I might suggest though is that Loner is someone who dislikes office politics greatly (like the rest of us who are in technical roles) and it is here that she needs to work to take the fight back to those who are controlling her.
"Controlling her??" YES - if they are treating her badly enough that she feels the need to vent on a forum or to a non-listening husband, then it is clearly on her mind and she clearly needs to deal with it.
Since the BEST insult to give anyone is to ignore them (denying the existence of someone really is a big thing) is not a viable solution here, Loner needs to learn how to "play the game" and get good enough at it that they can't perform the mental torture on her that is so evident. In other words: Don't let the bastards win!
I say the first thing to do is to get a book (or audio book) by Kathleen Kelly Reardon called The Secret Handshake. It is an EXCELLENT starting point for learning such skills.
Of course, I am very confident in what I do now even though I am still learning the office politics thing. I guess it also helps that I also have the weapon of outright hostility should anyone try to get too smart with me
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
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oops, I apparently quoted the wrong message....
Not sure you have read many of my posts, but you situation sounds very similar to mine. What you are describing is standard operation procedure for LARGE companies. I also worked with Oracle for a number of years, and if I say so myself, I would consider myself in the top 5% or better of Oracle DBA's.
It took me about 2 months to learn SQL Server to the point that I was what I would call slightly better than a Jr. DBA. I am now at about 6 months. Doing this (reading questions, answers, and trying to answer them myself) is how I have learned. Reading the BOL (Hey I know what you mean
) FYI, I know C++ too... Ever tried to use VS C++ (I do like C# though).. Sorry drifting. At this point I figure I am now in the top 33% of DBA's, at least the top 50% of SQL developers. I figure in about another 6 months I should be able to get in the top 10% of DBA's. However, to do that I had to do one key thing. Found a company where I LIKE THE PEOPLE. It happens to be a smaller company, one big enough to give me time to learn, but at the same time not so big, that they can deal with people that aren't productive.
Then I spend my days and at least a couple hours each night, or early in the mornings doing things like this to help me get better.
I realize that with words it can sometimes be hard to get a meaning across, but there are still a lot of good people out there that actually like helping others. Let them. My point about it might be a problem with you wasn't in your abilities, or possibly even your attitude, but instead in your choice of companies.
Example: Do you know someone that is a great person, but they have been divorced 3 or more times? Or perhaps me, who is allergic to shell fish, but I love oysters. Even though I will give in some times, and order them. I will also regret that decision after I do.
Perhaps you need to suffer through the job you have until you can truely find a job/company you enjoy. Perhaps do consulting for a while. That gets you exposed to many companys. Try before you buy.
Good luck. There is a lot of great advice here from a lot of people, hope some of it help.
But again as for the first question, yes it is a lie, but you can't do anything about how others lead their lives, just what kind of example you lead.
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When you go to interview, you only see a few people. In my current job, my boss lived in Minnesota and the company was in NY, so I only had a telephone interview. I did went to the company to see the HR manager. I tried to ask the question liked what was turnover rate of the company. But still you never know until you start working for the company, then you know what the company culture is. In my case, I was the only one working under my boss and he worked remotely. No one knew who I was and what I did. However the relationship between me and my boss was fine. Until the beginning of this year, there was a organizational change, my boss got a promotion and became the director of BI and reporting, I got assigned to another manager, then the problem started. I thought my old boss would be on my side instead he was on the manager's side.
I was not living in the past. I was learning from the past. I did not let people intimidate me anymore. As I said, nowadays people was afraid to lose the job but most people pretty much kept everything to themselves.
I worked for small company, medium size company and fortunate 500 company, there is an old Chinese saying 'the flower is the same everywhere'. That means it does not matter where you go and what size of company you work, people is still the same.
BTW, I tried to put a profile picture or avatar picture to show that I am a 'Woman', how do I do that?
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Loner,
from reading this and other posts you have made in the past, it seems to me like most of your problems are with office politics. Personally I despise it, but am good at it. But, if that is your main problem, I would seriously consider becomming a consultant. Either independently, or trough a good consulting firm. You'd be amazed how nice it is not to have to worry about backstabbers as you know you will be out of there sooner or later. I did for 7 years for the same consulting firm, was great not to have to worry about anything more than making sure the person signing my timesheet was happy
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