Is Computer Science Dead?
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"a computer does three things, 1> takes data in, 2> tinks about it and 3> gives it back improved."
Back when dinosaurs ruled, I was taught that a computer only did one thing; add.
It just added very fast. Multiplication and division where just repetitive adding problems and subtraction was adding the inverse.
Everything else programmers do is just another way to add.
Now, go build from there.
I believe what we are talking about is the "dummying" down effect from the "no child left behind program" in public schools to the college level. If we can't supply the colleges & universities with quality students with a good basic skill set, then they have to lower the standard and make parents pay more to educate their child what they should have already learned. How much influence do GUI based software companies have on universities curriculum? Why teach the basics when corporate America will retrain them anyway with the desired skill set?
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JUst to throw this in, I have a 13 year old who can't stand me when it comes to doing his homework. I won't let him use a calculator and make him show me his work when I check his math. He get's mad and rants about how they can use calculators and all I tell him is "What happens if you are doing your job and someone asks a math question critical to your career or the other guys? If you can do it correctly without a calculator you will be the one they want."
When .NET was being launched I attended one of the events. One of the lecturers made the statement that he would rather hire someone that drags and drops the code into place than to hav some who says that Notepad is a good tool for developing a web page. My arguement with him was that a person who can do it in notepad can do the work and do it better than somone who drags and drops and pays no further attention the the code than that. What about all the stuff left behind when you remove a dropped object, it may not hurt performance but it is a poor practice to not know what you are doing.
Point is I agree the "No Child Left Behind Act" has served to dumb down our expectations of our children and whn they all work as ditch diggers because they couldn't do anything better it i the parents fault first and foremost for not investing the time in their children to help learn the basics.
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Antares, I agree with that.
No calculators in school!
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Just after the dinosaur age ended, we had Ti something's bolted to the table tops in class. They probably cost $500 plus back then. Couldn't use them during tests, classroom only. Almost needed a class just on those things!
Finally they relented and allowed calculators but only "4 bangers" were allowed. You still had to do the work longhand.
Now my son uses a Ti graphing calculator, mandatory in his AP Calculus class in high school. I'm sure that it can do more, better and faster then my old Vic 20 every thought of doing.
Maybe even faster then Vista takes to boot!
But I still use the occasional 4 banger and my trusty HP12C every day.
Steve: Maybe that's a poll question some day- what is your favorite calculator?
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Around here, we have "Melissa" - as in "Hey Melissa, what's 378 times 173?" and she gets it right every time. I don't know how she does it, but it's way faster than any machine. I rarely use a calculator, and when I do, it's for something that requires more than the basic functions (usually logs or trig functions). I can do most things in my head, and almost anything if I write it down. Faster to use Melissa, but the point is, I wouldn't be stuck without her.
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Here's another side point that popped into my head... how much programming can you do WITHOUT using a computer?
The answer: almost all of it.
The answer for most script kiddies: none.
It's funny when the network goes down (or even better, the electricity fails). You can tell who the real programmers are because they are still there, still able to make progress on their projects, and everybody else is off having a beer.
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I can write/draw/protype it all out on paper but gave into the other crowd when they required us to track all our changes including a comment that we have to file the cocktail napkin we made any notes on just in case.
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Ouch... sucks to be you. I've worked in places like that, and I don't like it. Things get documented if they get done. I don't spend time writing about stuff I did in the interim, or documenting changes that didn't make it into the final release. If there's a diagram or something that is appropriate in the documentation, I make a DB diagram and PDF it, or I'll use Visio sometimes to make flowcharts and stuff. This is after it's done. Everything else up to that point is done on less-permanent media.
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I agree with Jeff and a great many other in the posting. I definitely have seen very 'few' worth their salt. It is not the people, it is the curriculum - more to the point the lack of it. Things changed on the 'promise' of making things easier - translation: making decisions for us and making us lazy assuming the little things would always be handled correctly. They had the right idea but the wrong execution. You need to build on the basics. You cannot build a house without a foundation. Once the foundation is there the tradesmen in the construction crews can do almost anything. Well here goes my take on 'What it takes'::
Math:
- Binary
- Octal
- Hexadecimal
- Conversions between any base - 2, 8, 10, 16 in any combination
Contstructs:
- Sequence of statements
- If/Then/Else
- For Loop
- Do While Loop
- Do Until Loop
- Case statement - do first true case only
- Case statement - do every true case
Logic:
- Truth Tables
- Story problems
- And-ing
- Or-ing
- Exclusive Or-ing
Set Theory
- Universes
- Domains
- Ranges
- Sub sets
- Super sets
- Unions
- Intersections
Low Level Language
- BAL, Basic Assembler Language (I cut my teeth on Big Blue)
- C - not C++ or C#, their father
Storage:
- Bits and bytes and words
- Records and blocks
- Disks - Tracks and Sectors
- RAID (0, 1, 5, 1+0)
All of the concepts listed, lest the low level language, can be taught without the need for computers or computer languages of any kind. These basic premises are the foundation for all, yes all, higher level languages <period>
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
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Well back on planet earth software companies want C++, C#, Java, Object modeling, relational modeling, dimension modeling and prediction modeling so they can start billing for what you are coding or designing . All of the above are CS programs for people with college funds not ones who want a job before their student loans come due so credit checks will not stop them from getting jobs with their hard earned degrees. One more thing all the above list is in C# 3.0, yes predicate algebra and set logic is now in C# thanks to the brilliant Anders Hejlsberg and his team, the computer industry have finally given him the long over due recognition. And the system stuff hardware companies like HP and Intel prefer EE and Physics masters.
http://www.eweek.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&s=25996&a=203045&po=25,00.asp?p=y
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie -
I think the point here is that it doesn't appear that they're teaching such basics anymore.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Thank You Jeff ... now back to my paper and pencil ...
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
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It isn't dead it's just there isn't an academic track for NON-PROGRAMMERS> I was taught Pascal, C++ and an bunch of other languages and made write dumb programs that did math, found data in a database and did something with it, played some boring game, made puzzles, made sounds and pictures and more stuff that was boring to me. It wasn't hard for me. I could think like the programming language and spent a lot of time makeing the code short and sweet. Wanted the code to look pretty. But that was just to feed my ego. In the end it was not information that I used in my profession. I wanted to be a DBA, sys admin, manager, and later on a Director and then a Director of even bigger and better. I want control, atonamy, and respect for my choices. Now that might be what collage is for. Either your a critical thinker or your not. If you not, then stay out of CS. Stay out of the tech field. Do something that simply requires you to do what your told. I feel CS (meaing your a computer scientist or computer engenieer) means your a problem solver no diffrent then an Electrical or any other eng. I'm tired of working with D*mb A** people who got into computers because the pay was good. Those people annoy the crap out of me. I do what I do because it's what I like to do. It comes easy and was a natrual choice. Hell I could go do law and make more money. BuT At this point I don't want to.
Being MS certified isn't the same as getting a BS in CS. Except there are basic principles like how to design a server and plan your network's structure and security that University's can't teach because the teachers don't know how to do that themselves. But I think there should be a non-programming track taught at all your major schools. Besides how many burned out programmers do you know that stoped being a developer have less then 10 years to become some sort of manager? Then your just stuck in the machine. No there needs to be a better way then that. With offshore codeing sweatshops that's not a good option anymore. But every company needs people that know where the IT world is going and ride the board. Pick the wrong wave and you just went from "the guy or gal" to "the chump with the pink slip"
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